Uneducated Actors

[taranaki]

Originally posted by tomlong
Bush is backed by 70% of the U.S. which equates to 196 million people in our country. We are going to take out the regime of Saddam. We will work with the U.N. to create a new government based on freedom and not terror. When this is all over and you come out from hiding under your rocks you will see that the Iraqi people will be dancing in the streets. They will finally know what freedom is all about and at that time they will prosper.

lovely piece of satire there tomlong...............Oh wait.You actually believe it.How sad.


Who the hell do you think is holding the cities against the advancing invaders?The French,perhaps?No,there's a significant proportion of the Iraqi people who would be well happy if you just got the hell out of their country.
As for "We will work with the U.N. to........."sorry,Ididn't read the rest of that ,Iwas laughing too hard.Unless you are planning on ousting George Bush in a coup[a bloody good idea in my view],there is scant chance of the U.S. co-operating with anyone who actually wants a say in anything.

The idea that you will put in a regime based on freedom is bullshit.Quick list - China, Korea, Guatemala, Sudan, Kuwait, Vietnam, Guatemala[again], Nicaragua..................all countries that have had input from the American military since 1945,can't see any democratic freedoms in any of them.EWhat makes you think Iraq will be any different,given the appaling record at of previous attempts to 'Westernize' countries of strategic importance to America?

[tomlong]

Help me recall when we went to China! South Korea prospers while N. Korea has many of the same problems Iraq does. I am not to familiar with what happened with the Sudan, Guatemaula, or Nicaragua so I will refrain from speaking on these matters. Vietnam the French started and requested our help and like Korea the sections we did occupy are prosperous while the rest are not. In regards to Kuwait. Have you been there? Kuwait is very wealthy! There people enjoy a high quality life.

In regards to cooperation bush has already stated that he will let the U.N. help determine the correct leadership and government for a post war Iraq.

You think that what you see on T.V. is correct just as I do. Well since your government and people are against the war you are seeing all the negative stuff while we are seeing many negatives and positives of the war. Non of us like to see civilians or soldiers die for no reason.

[taranaki]

Originally posted by tomlong
Help me recall when we went to China! South Korea prospers while N. Korea has many of the same problems Iraq does. I am not to familiar with what happened with the Sudan, Guatemaula, or Nicaragua so I will refrain from speaking on these matters. Vietnam the French started and requested our help and like Korea the sections we did occupy are prosperous while the rest are not. In regards to Kuwait. Have you been there? Kuwait is very wealthy! There people enjoy a high quality life.

In regards to cooperation bush has already stated that he will let the U.N. help determine the correct leadership and government for a post war Iraq.

You think that what you see on T.V. is correct just as I do. Well since your government and people are against the war you are seeing all the negative stuff while we are seeing many negatives and positives of the war. Non of us like to see civilians or soldiers die for no reason.

Kuwait may be wealthy,but it's not a democracy.And the U.S. Marines were in China from 1941-1947.

Most of the footage shown on New Zealand T.V. comes from American T.V.networks,please don't assume that just because your government messes with the media that ours does too.And yes,most New Zealanders are opposed to the war,as are most Australians and most other nations.Bush likes to draw attention to the 40 or so countries that are providing passive support for his war,but that leaves over 100 nations totalling 5/6ths of the world's population unaccounted for.

[tomlong]

Most of the footage shown on New Zealand T.V. comes from American T.V.networks,please don't assume that just because your government messes with the media that ours does too.

Our government has no control over what is shown on our networks. Like I said I see many positive and negative things broadcasted. If you are watching our networks you know exactly what I am seeing. It does not matter if Kuwait is a democracy they are peaceful, fair people. I think that you assume that I believe that every country should be a democracy and maybe I do believe this to a certain extent. I as many other americans believe that the world would be a better place if all were free and allowed to voice their opinion without being severly punished. How many people in Iraq post on this forum. Non because they are not allowed.

[taranaki]

Originally posted by tomlong


Our government has no control over what is shown on our networks. .

You can't possibly believe that.Goodnight.

[tomlong]

I have been doing some research on some of the conflicts you listed. Since I was not well informed of them. In 1941 through 1947 we were not in china to fight against their government we were there to help them keep their northern front against the impeding Japanese(which we did) forces we were not there to restructure their government.

Guatemala 300,000 people have been found dead or have disappeared in the last thirty years du to the security forces of the government. Our intervention led to the 1996 peace treaty which led to the start of mass landmine removal. Our intervention was pushed by the U.N. on this matter.

In regards to the Sudan everything we do their is decided by the U.N. Read the attached link completely please and tell me what your thoughts are. My thoughts are that this country should be next.
http://www.survivorsrightsinternatio...round_sudan.mv

Again I must reiterate that I respect your views and understand that we are in completely different countries with completely different thoughts.

Lets not forget who helped out when the japanese tried to take over the pacific. New Zealand may be owned by the Japanese now if not for us.
http://www.kithobbyist.com/rnzaf/rnzaf1.html

Lets also remember that South Africa is a much better place to live now.

[taranaki]

Lets not forget who helped out when the japanese tried to take over the pacific. New Zealand may be owned by the Japanese now if not for us.
[/b]

Let's not forget which country Japan chose to attack first.Without the support of the rest of the world, you could just as easily been speaking Japanese by now.

[TexasF355F1]

Staying out of the debate or arguing going on and sticking to the original post. If all these actors have such a problem with the U.S. then I think they should just give up their citizenships and move out! Hell, Alec Baldwin said if Bush were elected he was going to move to Canada and give up his citizenship. Of course, he probably thought Gore would win and when Bush did he didn't know what to say. It's not that celebrities are stupid, its that their mouths move faster than their brains.

[Pick]

Originally posted by taranaki
.

Yes,George Bush was in the National Guard.Curiously,he never saw action,he went AWOL to campaign for his own self-interest.Funny how that never gets mentioned.Or that all of his buddies in the war room managed to worm their way out of Vietnam one way or another....

.

As I have already mentioned, Bill Clinton DODGED the draft by going to Oxford in England and protested the war openly in the streets. You might say,"Well good, its good to have someone who has morals and ethics and sticks to them." We all know what is sticky around Clinton and we all know about his morals and ethics, so don't even try to argue.

[TexasF355F1]

Just b/c you are in the Military doesn't mean you are going to see "action". My dad went into the Army around the same time Vietnam started. He didn't try and dodge getting sent or drafted, he just didn't ever get called to go.

[taranaki]

Originally posted by Pick


As I have already mentioned, Bill Clinton DODGED the draft by going to Oxford in England and protested the war openly in the streets. You might say,"Well good, its good to have someone who has morals and ethics and sticks to them." We all know what is sticky around Clinton and we all know about his morals and ethics, so don't even try to argue.

I've never argued any points on Clinton,simply because he is totally irrelevant to the debate.

[Pick]

Originally posted by taranaki


I've never argued any points on Clinton,simply because he is totally irrelevant to the debate.

You did, however, call Bush a draft-dodger. Clinton was responsible for the same acts as you accuse Bush of.

[taranaki]

Originally posted by Pick


You did, however, call Bush a draft-dodger. Clinton was responsible for the same acts as you accuse Bush of.

Clinton isn't running the country any more.He's not relevant to this debate at all.Why does every Bush apologist drag up Clinton as if his actions are the standard by which we should judge Bush?

[MattyG]

I am amazed this thread hasn't degenerated yet. It all seems a bit futile anyway now.

I really wanted to contribute but I think Taranaki has pretty much covered evrything I wanted to say by himself.

Edit: here's an interesting article on the news services (the Washington post in particular) :

http://thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20030324&s=greider

[Jimster]

Originally posted by tomlong
I have been doing some research on some of the conflicts you listed. Since I was not well informed of them. In 1941 through 1947 we were not in china to fight against their government we were there to help them keep their northern front against the impeding Japanese(which we did) forces we were not there to restructure their government.

Guatemala 300,000 people have been found dead or have disappeared in the last thirty years du to the security forces of the government. Our intervention led to the 1996 peace treaty which led to the start of mass landmine removal. Our intervention was pushed by the U.N. on this matter.

In regards to the Sudan everything we do their is decided by the U.N. Read the attached link completely please and tell me what your thoughts are. My thoughts are that this country should be next.
http://www.survivorsrightsinternatio...round_sudan.mv

Again I must reiterate that I respect your views and understand that we are in completely different countries with completely different thoughts.

Lets not forget who helped out when the japanese tried to take over the pacific. New Zealand may be owned by the Japanese now if not for us.
http://www.kithobbyist.com/rnzaf/rnzaf1.html

Lets also remember that South Africa is a much better place to live now.

South Africa- WHAT A LOAD OF HORSE SHIT!!!!!! What in gods name did the US do with South Africa- NOTHING- it was fellow commonwealth countries that made the difference- and even still South Africa is worse these days- poverty is rising- Crime is through the roof and the black government is penalising white people- especially if you want to get into a University- much more spots are gonig to people because they are black- these people are getting in instead of white, Indian or Colored South Africans who have the marks- and this has been told to me not by some BS media source- but by South African friends.


And in China- the US did stay on after the Japanese- they funded and backed Chiang Kai-shek's Nationalist government against Mao Zedung's CCP Communist forces- Chiang lost- the Communists took over and the US left straight away- leaving China in more of a mess than what they found it in.