99 windstar still chugging really bad.. Help please

[LeSabre97mint]

MOM

Keep an eye on the oil. If it turns milky antifreeze is leaking in to the oil. Antifreeze is bad for the engine if it's in the oil.

Dan

[Mom2boyzz]

The wires are the same ones since we bought the van about 2 1/2 years ago.
I'm not sure if the dealership we bought it from put new ones on it or not... I doubt it, as everything else they were supposed to do, they didn't bother doing.

So, I guess it would be worth it to replace them..
We'll try that tomorrow and see what happens.

We'll also keep checking on the oil, and hope that it doesn't go milky. (Will this look white, or still be dark, but creamy consistency)

Thanks again!
Lyndsay

[12Ounce]

You perhaps should send a sample of the crankcase oil to Blackstone Labs ... they can diagnose a lot of troubles. Sounds as tho you may have coolant finding its way into the crankcase ... Not good, especially if not attended to in a timely fashion.

This engine has about three paths for the coolant to find its way into the crankcase: Lower intake gaskets, front engine cover gaskets ... and the head gaskets.

[mtp_m]

i'm having similar problems with my 99 windstar, a little stuttering at the light, i had a oil change which i really needed and my oil was sludged and brown and they also found little metal shavings in it which they could not explain what caused it, my coolant also runs out fast but it stays at a minimal level way below the minimum line. i had it overheat and then had the thermostat changed which solved the overheating problem but i put water in it because i was warned that the coolant could be leaking in the engine, usually when i put the water in it makes the car run a little smoother so i can kind of tell when its running low. when it was running real rough a few months ago and the engine light came on i used lucas treatment and it stopped the knocking but after that i replaced the IAC and the engine light is still on with codes 171 174

[FordGuy81]

Originally Posted by mtp_m

i'm having similar problems with my 99 windstar, a little stuttering at the light, i had a oil change which i really needed and my oil was sludged and brown and they also found little metal shavings in it which they could not explain what caused it, my coolant also runs out fast but it stays at a minimal level way below the minimum line. i had it overheat and then had the thermostat changed which solved the overheating problem but i put water in it because i was warned that the coolant could be leaking in the engine, usually when i put the water in it makes the car run a little smoother so i can kind of tell when its running low. when it was running real rough a few months ago and the engine light came on i used lucas treatment and it stopped the knocking but after that i replaced the IAC and the engine light is still on with codes 171 174

Sounds as if you have a major leak somewhere. Adding just water instead of antifreeze will not prolong anything. Both are bad for your engine when mixed with oil. Antifreeze also lubricates the bearings in the water pump, something water alone won't do.

Do not use tap water or water from any other source as it will contain minerals that will collect in your cooling system potentially causing blocked passages. Use distilled water.

The 171/174 codes are referenced in a sticky. If that is not the issue, then there is a vacuum leak elsewhere.

[LeSabre97mint]

Hay MOM

How is the Windstar coming?

Dan

[Mom2boyzz]

Well, we let it run for a while with the fuel cleaner in it... but did not take it for a drive.. just let it sit idling in the driveway, as the cowling is still off.

We went out there tonight, to look for the arcing at the wires. There was nothing at all. No sparks, arcs, light of any sort etc coming from anywhere.

The engine light still has not come back on while leaving the van running.. I keep expecting it to, but it hasn't.

Now, it has improved quite a bit since cleaning the EGR ports, oil & spark plugs. It's no longer misfiring and running REALLY rough, but it's still chugging a lot, just not as bad.

Tomorrow, I'm going to call the local "auto recyclers" to get a price on the coil pack... because I don't know if that's the problem or not, but a lot of people have mentioned it so maybe.

The new oil in it still looks fine.. no discoloration or sludge (yet). Even when doing the oil change originally there was NO *white* or *milky* colour in it at all.. only brown.

Everything was closed today, as it was Thanksgiving, quite frustrating as we were home all day, couldn't go anywhere and couldn't do any work on the van at all.

So, for tomorrow after work:
check to see if there are codes pending, and if so which ones
call to get prices on coil pack (well I'll do that from work) Is there any way to easily check if the coil pack is shot for sure?

Not sure if we'll still do the wires or not.. hubby thinks we should, but I'm thinking if we didn't see any arcing, is it really worth spending the extra $$ on them if it won't solve the problem?

Hubby really thinks it may be the fuel injectors, but how can we check those to know for sure before replacing them all at a high cost?

I dunno... I just hope this thing gets working soon... I'm starting to lose my mind.

Thanks for all the help
Lyndsay

[LeSabre97mint]

MOM

Here is a link I found on testing sparkplug wires: http://www.tpub.com/content/construc...s/14273_70.htm

Fuel injectors can be tested with an OHM meter too. In my opinion they all should have the same amount of resistace.

Dan

[Mom2boyzz]

Dan, Thanks for this link, it's very helpful.

Once home today, we're going to check the codes, he's going to check the spark plug wires & fuel injectors as indicated in the link.. and try to figure out if the coil pack is bad or not as suggested in a previous post.

I really hope we can get this darned thing working, I'm getting so frustrated.

Thanks again, I don't know what I'd do without you guys!

[CnlK]

9L of oil out of the pan is way too much. You mentioned oil had a chocolate milk appearance. I wouldn't consider that normal, sure seems that oil is contaminated with antifreeze. As others suggested pull plugs and do a compression test, appearance of plugs will also be a tip. If plugs and comp test are good, lower intake gasket leak is possible, there is also a coolant line that runs underneath the lower intake. This line has caused problems for some and if leaking will leak coolant into valley and into oil. You could also bring a sample of oil in for testing to check for antifreeze. Doesn't sound like the van has really been driven and gotten up to operating temperatures since the last oil change, this could account for why you haven't seen the oil level or appearance change yet due to a coolant leak.

[Mom2boyzz]

The oil itself didn't look all that bad, just dark.

It was the sludgy stuff that looked like melted chocolate, and that was only under the cap... not milky at all. No white colour anywhere.

When doing the spark plugs, there was some build up on them, but not really bad.. but we know they are at LEAST 2 1/2 yrs old. There's no antifreeze anywhere to be seen, even when cleaning the EGR ports.

Now, if my head gasket was gone/going.. wouldn't it be overheating? This has NEVER happened, the temp has never even passed the middle range of the guage.

Is it even worth continuing with all this, and checking fuel injectors/coil etc if it's my head gasket.. or just start looking for another vehicle.

Will the codes tell me if my head gasket is gone?

[FordGuy81]

Originally Posted by Mom2boyzz

The oil itself didn't look all that bad, just dark.

It was the sludgy stuff that looked like melted chocolate, and that was only under the cap... not milky at all. No white colour anywhere.

When doing the spark plugs, there was some build up on them, but not really bad.. but we know they are at LEAST 2 1/2 yrs old. There's no antifreeze anywhere to be seen, even when cleaning the EGR ports.

Now, if my head gasket was gone/going.. wouldn't it be overheating? This has NEVER happened, the temp has never even passed the middle range of the guage.

Is it even worth continuing with all this, and checking fuel injectors/coil etc if it's my head gasket.. or just start looking for another vehicle.

Will the codes tell me if my head gasket is gone?

If your headgasket has failed, then the car would overheat. You would also have to continiously add coolant to the radiator/overflow bottle. The codes will not indicate a failed headgasket persay, but a failed headgsket would lead to compression loss which could trigger a misfire code. A compression test on all cylinders would be a good indicator of a failed headgasket. 1 or 2 adjacent cylinders with low compression would be indicative of a failed headgasket. Do you know anyone who knows how to do a compression test or is there a mechanic nearby?

However, as I said earlier 9L is about double the capacity of the oiling system, so something doesn't seem right there. Was their catch pan already full from a previous job?

You stated that there was a lack of milkiness or white coloring, which is good. The oil will look dark after being drained from the engine, especially if it was past due.

I would at this point have a compression check performed with an oil analysis done. If the compression test checks out OK, and the oil analysis comes back being free of water/coolant, then I would say that you could rule out a headgasket failure or other failure that would leak coolant into the oil.

In summary:

Check the codes
Compression Test
Oil Analysis

Those three things will give you and us a better understanding of what is going on. Otherwise you just end up shooting in the dark. Keep posting back with what your findings are, we're bound to find the solution.

Bill

[Andrew1941]

I have an 01 running like crap as of yesterday, sounds similar to what you are experiencing. My own fault for messing with it. I pulled my plugs out for inspection, regapped and fired it back up. Now it chugs pretty bad. I will pick up new wires tonight from Lordco ($45 to $60 - similar pricing at Canadian Tire) and install (after voting of course...yes I am in Canada too). I will let you know if it clears things up at all. I agree with Fordguy that you should look at how old the wires are and see if there is any physicall damage. Mine are orginal and the van has 130, 000 km. I can see some exterior insulation damage to one of the wires on the driver's side of the engine where the wire turns over the manifold and starts heading down to the front spart plugs (#4 I think?). The wires need to be replaced and if it doesn't correct the issue, well it wasn't money wasted, just need to keep looking. In my case, the wires are supsoicious as they are about the only thing I messed with aside from the gap.

One thing I started to do, but never finished yesterday was you can take one spark plug lead off, put a screw driver into the inside (be gentle) and make contact. Set the screwdriver against something metal (do not touch metal or wire with your hands) and then turn the key over to start and back off right away and you should get a spark if all is well. I am not sure if this can damage anything, but it tells you if you are getting a pulse or not. This doesn't imply that you do not have bad wires, just tells you if you are getting voltage out of the coil pack. Maybe someone can tell me a better safer way to test?

[12Ounce]

Andrew1941, that is a good test. I keep an old plug around to use for this test.

Just remove cable from plug in cylinder. Insert old test plug into cable. Place plug body against ground or use connector wire with alligator clips to ground plug body. Perform test.

It also helps to be able to pull the cables loose one-by-one while the engine is idling to see if all plugs/cylinders affect the engine's running the same. The cable must be allowed to spark to ground. Using a well insulated set of pliers, and gloves, will usually prevent shocking. Some times its more convenient to remove the cable from the ignition pack than from the plug ... but this can be misleading as it will interfere with the sibling-plug's firing.

[Andrew1941]

12ounze, thanks for the help. I posted some follow up of what I found in another thread so as to not interefere so much with MOM's thread:

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbul...d.php?t=925523

By the way, MOM, changing the wires did not help me out all, she is still chugging away as if I did nothing! I suspect I have a bad coil pack, but not sure...maybe some can help with testing procedure?