HELP!! engine dies on interstate

[kodgerbill]

Originally Posted by rhandwor

The module on the side of the distributor fails when hot. When you take it in to be tested take a hair dryer with you. They will test good cold by warming it up with the dryer it will fail if bad. Just don't overheat it and trash it. A drop of water will boil at this point stop if it passes it is good. Over appx. 90% of them have to be heated to find the problem.

Thanks. I thought you were possibly speaking of the problem you had with that module. You never did say exactly how the problem manifested itself, though, except that it shut the engine down.

Did the engine shut completely down? If so, how long until it restarted?

The problem I have (or had??) was that it would shut down momentarily (enough to cause the transmission to shift out of OD) and then it would pick back up again and act like nothing had happened. Then it would do it again. Maybe soon or maybe an hour or so later.

BTW, my problem was outlined in another thread, similarily titled...."Shutting down on Highway".

Regards,

Jim

[rhandwor]

I've found the module when it shut down would take 10 to 30 minutes to cool before it would start. The pickup in the distributor will shut down and pickup real quick. I've also had wiring problems from the module to the distributor and computer. They are much harder to find and fix. I use a 12 volt test light and put it on the negative coil terminal. Slide the light next to wire and side of connector. When somebody is trying to start the light will blink. If it don't blink buy a rebuilt distributor or pickup. A puller is needed to change this item.
These are very common problems on the 5.0L engines.

[kodgerbill]

Originally Posted by rhandwor

I've found the module when it shut down would take 10 to 30 minutes to cool before it would start. The pickup in the distributor will shut down and pickup real quick. I've also had wiring problems from the module to the distributor and computer. They are much harder to find and fix. I use a 12 volt test light and put it on the negative coil terminal. Slide the light next to wire and side of connector. When somebody is trying to start the light will blink. If it don't blink buy a rebuilt distributor or pickup. A puller is needed to change this item.
These are very common problems on the 5.0L engines.

In what car is the 5 L, to which you refer?

Mine is the 4.x.

BTW, drove the car 25 miles this morning from cold. It did it weird thing once. On the way back, also from cold, it ran as it should.

Poltergeist???????

Regards,

Jim

[marksatterfield]

Originally Posted by rhandwor

The module on the side of the distributor fails when hot. When you take it in to be tested take a hair dryer with you. They will test good cold by warming it up with the dryer it will fail if bad.

Nice idea with the hair dryer. This sounds like a "fire control" problem to me, and the hall effect sensor on the distributor is where I'd go first.

--Mark

http://www.marksatterfield.com

[rhandwor]

The 5L is common on Lincoln Town cars, Crown Vics,Grand Marquis, Thunderbird, some Mustangs.
The smaller 6 cyl Fords with a distributors you can check the pickup the same way. The modules are also checked the same way at the parts store.

[kodgerbill]

Originally Posted by rhandwor

The module on the side of the distributor fails when hot. When you take it in to be tested take a hair dryer with you. They will test good cold by warming it up with the dryer it will fail if bad. Just don't overheat it and trash it. A drop of water will boil at this point stop if it passes it is good. Over appx. 90% of them have to be heated to find the problem.

If that is the problem, why might it be that it sometimes NEVER happens.

Remember me saying (see above) that I had been driving and the problem never manifested itself? Well, yesterday I drove it 25 miles and it happened four times before I traveled 10 miles! Driving back a couple hours later, it didn't happen.

That's what's so perplexing!!!

Regards,

Jim

[marksatterfield]

Thermal failures often behave this way -- that is, intermittently.

Here's one story. My car was five or six years old at the time, less than 100k miles. It was fine most of the time, but occasionally would either spitter or cut out. The spittering was actually interesting. Due to the engine management system, the spittering resulted in an engine surge (that is, increased RPM).

If the engine cut out, it would not restart for a few minutes.

I took it to a mechanic. He said he had it on a lift, idling, for an hour. Never cut out. So he didn't charge me anything.

A few days later it cut out driving into a parking spot -- now that is not where you want your power steering to fail! Luckily, no accidents. Anyway, went into lunch and expected it would be fine coming out. No such luck.

Pushed it to the mechanic next door to the eatery and left it. He called me back an hour later and said there was nothing wrong with the car. I asked him to let it run in the sun until I got there. By the time I got there, it had finally cut out.

And presto! It turned out to be the hall effect sensor. $400 later I had my car back.

Ten years later I had the engine surge situation go on, and knew exactly what it was. I called the parts store and asked them for the two devices that make up the hall effect sensor -- total cost was like $36 with a lifetime warranty.

Of course, the $400 was a result of my inexperience. I call it part of my education.

One thing that was interesting was that the devices have thermal grease to assist the heat sink situation, just like a computer. I've had computers for thirty years (since the late 70s), same thermal failure can happen with them.

So here's what I'd have to say to you. Since this is unfamiliar territory for you (like it was for me 15 years ago), keep driving your car until it finally shuts down completely. Then whatever remedy you apply you'll know for sure it was the fix -- and you'll be able to share your $400 experience with the rest of us!

By the way, 3.8L V6, no puller necessary. Yank the distributor out and the sensors are simply screwed in place.

Cheers,
--Mark

http://www.marksatterfield.com

[kodgerbill]

Originally Posted by marksatterfield

Thermal failures often behave this way -- that is, intermittently.

.................SNIP.................

So here's what I'd have to say to you. Since this is unfamiliar territory for you (like it was for me 15 years ago), keep driving your car until it finally shuts down completely. Then whatever remedy you apply you'll know for sure it was the fix -- and you'll be able to share your $400 experience with the rest of us!

Wow! Lots of good info there.

It appears, though, that it can be "any number" of diseases which causes the problem! Therefore, waiting until it quits might be the least expensive thing to do .

Is this Hall sensor on most cars? All cars? Some cars?

Then there's this module that gets hot which we have been discussing.

I'm wondering what it will take to diagnose it properly, or, even with all the fancy computer stuff they have, is it still a "trial and error" thing. "Replace this, oops! That wasn't it. Replace that,. Oops, that wasn't it. Well, then it must be this".

The first diagnosis I got from Checker Auto was a bad oxygen sensor. I didn't do anything. Next from AutoZone, it was a vacuum leak. We couldn't find it. I haven't done anything, still.

My mechanic said he'd check it all out and give me an hour for $60. He has a handheld tester, so I'm wondering how much better a tester Ford would have?

Any thoughts on this?

Thanks,

Jim

[danielsatur]

Do you still have the old fuel filter?

I like to use my thumb + index finger to plug fuel filter ends and shake it ,
poor out backwards of fuel flow direction onto clean rag.

If the fuel is already out,you can spray some WD40 and repeat the same process.


CAUTION - Don't be doing this shit near that hair dryer!

MCGIVER

[kodgerbill]

Originally Posted by danielsatur

Do you still have the old fuel filter?
MCGIVER

Yeah, it was clean. Thanks.

Jim

[marksatterfield]

Originally Posted by kodgerbill

<snip>

Is this Hall sensor on most cars? All cars? Some cars?

Then there's this module that gets hot which we have been discussing.
</snip>

(1) We are talking the same oranges here. The Hall effect sensor is the module that we are discussing. It might be called a Cam position sensor, electronic ignition sensor, timing sensor, magnetic module, and lots of other things. The ignition module is either attached to the distributor along with the hall effect sensor or the ignition module is attached to the firewall with wires coming from the Cam/Distributor mounted hall effect sensor.

(2) So I normally resist giving 100% proof positive answers, and I'm sure someone is going to correct me here, but here goes anyway... All cars have either points or the hall effect sensor replacement of points. There, it is out there, now some of you smart guys can correct me here!

Check out Wiki's entry on Hall Effect Sensor for automotive applications. What did we do without Wiki?

Yes, if you can afford the time associated with the thing failing (1) on the way to work in the rain, or (2) on the way to the hospital as you are carrying your wife in for a baby delivery (of course, in the rain!), then you should go ahead and wait. Consider this a learning experience -- sometimes the best learning comes from getting caught in the rain!

--Mark

http://www.marksatterfield.com

[danielsatur]

I had a Ford Mustang with a bad Ignition module that when the Engine got hot,it would lose the Timing.

I took the Ignition module to Advance Auto and they tested as being bad.


MCGIVER