Guess what I did this morning?

[tazdev]

Originally posted by Moppie


LOL!

I was waiting for an ignorant fool to try and say something like this.

Care to justify your statement with experiance? :finger:

nah hes been to busy PUSHING his Jetta around

[replicant_008]

To be honest Moppie I can't see either being a city car. Both are indulgences to be used as the second or possibly third car.

I've been to drive days @ Pukekohe with the Lotus car club - including riding around and been lucky enough to drive quite a few cars on the track and on the road including the odd Lotus. (incidentally I'd recommend the Holden Advanced Driver Training course out there as well)

The Elise is a lovely car, beautifully balanced in handling but on the drive days I've noticed it's a noisy and uncomfortable thing. Even when you put the clutch in there's the clank when the pedal hits the bottom of the footwell - there's no sound deadening, the vibration and noise are great when you're doing hot laps but they'd be a pain sitting around in the usual Southern Motorway crawl. Esp with no air-con or a CD. Even getting in and out can be a pain too. Oh and the wind buffeting gets annoying too.

The Esprit isn't the greatest city car either. All the things that work on a track or on the open road can compromise the city experience. The lack of rear-vision, the windscreen rake and geometry limit vision over the binnacle looking forward, I have no idea where the front of the car is and the reflections off the dash on a summer's day can drive you nuts. You are so low to the ground that it's difficult to see past other vehicles (and likewise they have trouble seeing you). And all that power can be intoxicating on the open road but can be a liability in the wet around town even with a gentle right foot.

It's not to say I wouldn't buy one if I had the cash - I'd gladly have the Opel Speedster (or VX220) in my garage or for that matter a road-version of the Fraser race car I help out with. But it would be for those early morning blasts to Piha for the hell of it rather than doing the commuter grind...

[Moppie]

Originally posted by replicant_008
To be honest Moppie I can't see either being a city car. Both are indulgences to be used as the second or possibly third car.

Absolutly. I have to totaly agree with you here.
There is not a Lotus built (except maybe a Carlton, or a Cortina) that is suited to driving around the City.
But if you have to own a Lotus, and it will also be your Daily driver then believe it or not the Elise is a much more practicle choice. Simply becasue it has a heater that works, a window demister that works, and of course the visablity is a lot better than the Esprit.
The extra noise and harder ride are a downside, but the Esprit has very heavy steering, and a clutch and gear change that do not like being used at low speeds.


and can I ask whos Elise you drove at the track day? Iv worked on most of the ones in the country, and some are in better condition than others.
(and Iv also done one of the Pukekohe track days but it was a few years ago when they were combined with the Jaguar and BMW clubs, and Iv either competed in, or marsheled or time kept at 3 of the last 5 Taupo regularity trials with the CLub)

[Ssom]

Originally posted by Moppie


LOL!

I was waiting for an ignorant fool to try and say something like this.

Care to justify your statement with experiance? :finger:

Like Replicant said neither are city cars- they are fun cars and open road cars- If you are a midget like yourself- an Elise is allright- I have sat in one before- the seats are pretty harsh- I reckon they'd be allright on a short trip- but I wouldn't like to sit in them for more than 45 minutes- and the interior is small (same with the Esprit- but that is beside the point) I have really only looked at an Esprit interior- the seats look a little more comfy- but I think it would suit me better on a longer drive- but it isn't all that better than the Elise- who cares about non-existant heaters- I don't even know how to work mine.- Plus if you drove an Elise in gridlock- you'd be stuck breathing in the fumes from Diesel Toyota Hiaces and Rigs that are in desperate need of a tune (a common sight in Auckland)- and from what I see you actually have to get up and get the hood out of the boot and put it up

Don't get me wrong- if I had the dosh- an Elise would be the first thing I'd rush out and buy if I had a choice of a track car- especially with a 190 engine, upgraded brakes, springs and anti-roll applications- maybe minor cosmetic upgrages in the interior and engine bay as well (just as an icing-on the cake thing)



Oh well......At least dreams are free


Taz- you are not far wrong- I left my radio on and flattened teh battery

[Moppie]

Originally posted by Moss1O6GTi


Like Replicant said neither are city cars- they are fun cars and open road cars- If you are a midget like yourself- an Elise is allright- I have sat in one before- the seats are pretty harsh-..............

oh moss you've just stuck your foot in it again.
Begin by reading my reply above. Then read below:

Both the Elise and the Esprit have more than enough room for an above averaged sized man.
Remember both are designed in the UK.
I know plenty of ppl who own both Esprit's or Elise's and are over 6ft tall, and weigh well over 100kgs.
They have no trouble getting into the cars, and have plenty of room to drive them.
Its only the smaller and older models like the Elan or Europa that anyone larger than Colin chapman has trouble with.

And according to the ppl who own them, and drive them all over the country 2 hours is a comfterble time spend behind the wheel of an Elise. If the road is smooth and your not thrashing it, then 4 hours can be done at a stretch. But sitting in auckland traffic for an hour is quite comfertble, as the car nevers goes fast enough to shake and rattle.
A well designed sport or race seat positioned in the right place is one of the most comfterble places you can be when driving. And the Elise has some very well designed seats in it. Its only the jiggly ride at high speed, and the amount of input required from the driver that makes them hard work on long open road trips.

The Esprit you can spend all day in. It's also one of the most comfterble cars I have ever driven.

[tazdev]

Originally posted by Moss1O6GTi
Taz- you are not far wrong- I left my radio on and flattened teh battery

Crappy Jetta factory radio and it drains your battery = Time to get a new battery (preferably attached to another car:finger: )

[Ssom]

Originally posted by tazdev


Crappy Jetta factory radio and it drains your battery = Time to get a new battery (preferably attached to another car:finger: )

Or a new radio


The only thing I can aford would be a Honduh anyway.........I don't want to lower myself to those depths :finger:

[Moppie]

Originally posted by Moss1O6GTi


The only thing I can aford would be a Honduh anyway.........I don't want to lower myself to those depths :finger:

Thats alright you could never handle that sort of power anyway.
You much safer with a nice slow Jetta. :finger:


but a new battery does sound like a good idea.

[tazdev]

Originally posted by Moss1O6GTi


Or a new radio

Get a new battery first as from hearing about your Jetta it seems like the one you have is crap to say the least

[replicant_008]

and can I ask whos Elise you drove at the track day? Iv worked on most of the ones in the country, and some are in better condition than others

Honestly, Moppie I can't tell you who the owner was. It was a few years ago when I was helping out on a Lotus and BMW track day. One of my close friends, who runs the Fraser, has a race licence and was providing some instruction (as well as doing some shakedown runs in the race car).

All I do remember was the car had a blue body and it was reasonably new at the time. I think I sat with the owner for a couple of laps before I had a drive. I'm not a racer and this was someone else's pride and joy (not to mention he was sitting beside me) so it wasn't the fastest run in the world even with the helmet on. But the impression I got was it's a more modern 7 - it's basic but everything in the car is there to do the job which is very narrow in its scope - it's a very focussed car and it's not meant to suit everything.

You are right about the visibility though it's a lot better than the Esprit but you'd never need a sound system because I suspect even with Taz's sound system you'd have trouble hearing it.

And if I had a Speedster in the garage, I'd need to have a touring car and a truck preferably something big, dumb and grunty, as well.

[Ssom]

Originally posted by tazdev


Get a new battery first as from hearing about your Jetta it seems like the one you have is crap to say the least

Not according to the garage




Moppie- Honda and Power are an Oxymoron (At least in my price range)

[tazdev]

Originally posted by replicant_008
you'd never need a sound system because I suspect even with Taz's sound system you'd have trouble hearing it.

You obviously haven't heard it then. The ladies like the special vibrating rear seat If only I could stop the boot rattle

[Moppie]

Originally posted by replicant_008


And if I had a Speedster in the garage, I'd need to have a touring car and a truck preferably something big, dumb and grunty, as well.

I know whos car it was. There are only a few BLues ones in NZ, and only one in Auckland, and only one in the country a few years ago.
His 1st name is Rys I won't post his last name. Like all the Elise owners a very nice guy, and is always willing to let others enjoy the experiance.
He's done a few mods to the car now, but at the time you were in it was most likely still standard.


Many elise owners sold what ever other cars they had to afford the Elise, and I think about half the ones in the countr were used for a long time as the owners sole transport. Since that time most of gone and bought a more practicle car. Most often after borrowing one when the Elise was off the road for what ever reason.

Having driven my Kit car (a car far more barren than an Elise) for 6mnths you easily forget how compromised the car is, and you learn to live with it. Not having a radio, having to wear warm cloths, and having your teeth lossened becomes second nature, and its only when you get to spend time in a more conventinal car that you realise what your missing.

[tazdev]

I like the look of the Elise alot more than the Esprit. AS with the majority of "sports" cars they can be an absolute nightmare in town traffic.

[Moppie]

Originally posted by tazdev
I like the look of the Elise alot more than the Esprit. AS with the majority of "sports" cars they can be an absolute nightmare in town traffic.

I think once you got used to the car it would be bit easier, but one of the reasons the one I drove was being sold is the owner didn't like driving it in traffic.

I had to drive it out of Tauranga in rush hour traffic (an oxymoron I know) and it was almost scary trying to line the frount up with the round abouts so I wouldn't hit them. And seeing around other cars to see what was coming, or to give way on the multilane roundabouts was impossible. As rep said before you literaly can not see the frount corners of the car. (Moving them around the work shop requires a fair degree of pracitce)
The clutch and gear change were very heavy at low speed, and it was real mission to not ride the clutch.
But once on the open raod. ohhhhh yeahhhhhhhhh :ylsuper