Fu*k Gorry Movies!!!

[Nayr747]

Originally Posted by Muscletang

Boo-who. If you don't like it, don't go and see it.

Are you overweight? Do you sometimes breathe cigarette smoke (more in other counties)? Are you likely to be diagnosed with cancer or have a heart attack before the age of 50? If you chose to not have a car and ride your bike everywhere is anyone forcing you to breathe car exhaust fumes and likely get cancer? No one is forcing any of this on you. Yet by some unknown force it still affects almost everyone. Crazy.

Originally Posted by Muscletang

It's not the film industry but the general media. If you're not going to get to the root of the problem then don't nit pick. This is just as bad as the un-informed parents who blame video games for school shootings.

Wow, and how exactly did I say anything like that? I never ONCE said that these movies CAUSE anything, did I? All I have said is that *I* do not like them, that their success reflects things about people, that the people that thought of the images and the people that like them have problems that they would like to believe no one realizes but are in reality pretty clear, and that people accept thse types of movies by judging the general group's reactions (this is how most opinions are formed, and why a movie where a baby gets raped cannot be shown). Why don't YOU try getting to the root of the problem. The media? Wow, now it's clear...

Originally Posted by Muscletang

You do know you're playing right into the film makers hand? Why do they make these films so bloody? To cause a scene and get attention. It has been seen over and over again that when a movie causes an uproar or there is controversy, people will go to see what the fuss is about.

Not to mention that when the words "bloodiest movie you've ever seen" or "people fainted while watching" will draw crowds. They want to see if it's the bloodies movie they've ever seen.

Besides you're too late for this argument. Americans like violence and stuff that is considered "bad" for them. Your argument is nothing new.

1950's - Tales from the Crypt comics were said to cause kids to become serial killers
1960's - this new music called "rock and roll" was said to be for devil worshipers
1970's - Porn chic, uprise in violent movies, ect
1980's - VHS's spread of pornographic movies and other violent films of the 70's
1990's - the internet's wide spread of porn, graphic images, ect to anybody at anytime, rap music
21st century - violent games causing violent kids

There is something every single decade that can be seen as "bad" or "unnecessary" for people.

Interesting. Well where are the babies being raped and torn apart movies. That would sure cause a comotion. Tickets on sale soon. Hey muscletang, now you know what you're doing this friday night with your girlfriend/wife/kids And think of the fond memories your kids will have when they see whatever demented scene that's 10 times as bad as those shown today. What a great fu*king world we live in.

[tenguzero]

I commented about this in another thread a couple months back about Hostel (when it was new in theaters.) I had gone to see it because a friend of mine was, and the box office scene hasn't exactly been stellar for the past year or so. I then commented in that thread that I thought it was one of the STUPIDEST movies I had ever seen (I'm talking House of the Living Dead stupid.) Me and our other friend that came along pretty much surmised that the only thing Hostel had going for it was the "Quentin Tarantino Presents:" tagline. These movies are most definitely a waste of time.

Now, it's not so much the whole "something must be mentally wrong with the people who see these movies and get a kick out of them" thing that drives me to bash them (because frankly most of the people I saw in the theater or later renting it off the shelf were your standard young adult types) it's the fact that these movies keep getting made -- which means there's actually a reasonable audience for them, which means many people are going to see more than one of these flicks.

I realize that the whole "slasher" genre has pretty much been around since Psycho, and that it's always made for a generally solid market in respect to sales and fans. And over-the-top gore has been utilized for quite a while as well (go rent one of Lucio Fulci's films -- talk about gore -- the eyeball-meets-splintered-door scene in 1979's Zombie is just downright unsettling.) But what makes many of these newer style gore-fests different is that their plot isn't centered around zombies, or serial murderers, or evil clowns run amok and what methods of torture they might employ -- it's almost like they're actually based around the idea of the torture itself as a form of amusement. Let's face it, even Jason Vorhees had some sort of character traits that made him differ from Freddy or Leatherface. With movies like Hostel, Saw, etc., the focus is almost entirely on the mutilation itself. No one really gives a shit about the background of the person inflicting it -- because you aren't SUPPOSED to analyze the characters in the film (as evidenced by the fact that the perpetrator is ALWAYS some sort of mentally deranged ex-surgeon or something dumb.) The filmmakers know you won't focus on the protagonists, the antagonists, or even the plot -- they know you'll focus on the act of slitting achilles tendons, or rigging up inventive new ways to put a bullet through someone's eye, or the proper placement of meathooks so as to suspend a body effectively.

And that's the whole ridiculous part of the entire thing -- the fact that people are willing to PAY to see this stuff. What's so entertaining about watching a person clawing their fingernails out trying to escape from an approaching blowtorch? It's really no different than burning bugs with a magnifying glass, or jabbing at dead animals with a stick. The funny thing is, these movies will continue to be made because filmmakers KNOW there is a guaranteed market out there for them -- and no one's immune to it, really: consider the piece of garbage that was The Passion of the Christ -- that stinker was little more than 2 hours worth of torture/snuff, with just a few paltry scraps of story thrown in. It would seem to me that anyone who's a Christian really doesn't need to go see a movie to reinforce their belief, but deep down inside, a part of them really wants to see a good whipping. And the more blood and chunks that come flying off, well that's all the more gross -- and hence "entertaining".

I don't really care that people will buy into this kind of stuff, because ultimately it's their money and they're free to do with it what they please. If 2 hours of empty plot, T&A, and splatterhouse torture dungeons entertains you, then by all means knock yourself out. Just know that you'll be wasting 2 hours of your day that could be spent watching (or even doing) far more beneficial and rewarding things. I feel pretty confident in saying that the greatest crime Hostel committed in my eyes, was not the crap on the screen, the cost of the ticket, or even continuing the tradition of vacant amusement for vacant minds -- it was the fact that the movie took two hours of my life that I'll never have back. And with all the bitching we do nowadays about working too much, not having enough free time, and being denied more chances at social interaction because of deadlines, work shifts, or obligations, suddenly two hours spent watching arms being sawn off with skillsaws and toes being lopped off with pruning shears really starts to make you question your priorities.

[Nayr747]

Originally Posted by tenguzero

Now, it's not so much the whole "something must be mentally wrong with the people who see these movies and get a kick out of them" thing that drives me to bash them (because frankly most of the people I saw in the theater or later renting it off the shelf were your standard young adult types)

How someone seems does not determine if something is mentally wrong with them. Most serial killers "seem" like any other normal person. Someone said something like "he seemed like a great, nice, likable guy" about one of them. You really think you can spot the sexual offender on your block? Why would they have to go around warning everyone in the neighborhood if it was so clear? I really believe if you actually analyzed one of the people responsible for these scenes (that's not always the director), they would in fact have serious issues. Issues that may manifest themselves in other ways than writing it down.

Originally Posted by tenguzero

it's almost like they're actually based around the idea of the torture itself as a form of amusement. With movies like Hostel, Saw, etc., the focus is almost entirely on the mutilation itself.

Thank you!

Originally Posted by tenguzero

And that's the whole ridiculous part of the entire thing -- the fact that people are willing to PAY to see this stuff. What's so entertaining about watching a person clawing their fingernails out trying to escape from an approaching blowtorch? It's really no different than burning bugs with a magnifying glass, or jabbing at dead animals with a stick.

Right! And you know what characteristic serial killers share in common? They all tortured animals when they were little. You have just drawn a connection between the animal thing and the scenes in the movies. Knowing that serial killers like to torture animals, that ligically implies that serial killers would like seeing these movies. Now, serial killers might like picking dasies too but that doesn't mean that everyone that picks dasies is a serial killer. But if ONLY serial killers liked an activity and non-serial killers didn't that would show that that activity had a conection with serial killers. Now I'm not talking about people that get dragged along to these movies or whatever and go "wow, that was pretty f-ed up." I'm talking about the people that continue to go to these movies because they like them. And I think there are also degrees to this. Say, if you jumped up and down and drooled while watching the movie than you've probably got more problems than someone who just kind of liked it.

Originally Posted by tenguzero

it was the fact that the movie took two hours of my life that I'll never have back. And with all the bitching we do nowadays about working too much, not having enough free time, and being denied more chances at social interaction because of deadlines, work shifts, or obligations, suddenly two hours spent watching arms being sawn off with skillsaws and toes being lopped off with pruning shears really starts to make you question your priorities.

Wow, I've never thought of it that way. But that's another really good point.

[Muscletang]

Originally Posted by Nayr747

No one is forcing any of this on you. Yet by some unknown force it still affects almost everyone. Crazy.

Sex, violence, profanity, ect have been around a long, long, long time. It's not like this is something that just "popped up" overnight.

As I said, Tales from the Crypt was a comic that was eventually banned because people raised hell over it. We may laugh but people responded to it the same way you're responding to the violent movies today.

Originally Posted by Nayr747

Wow, and how exactly did I say anything like that? I never ONCE said that these movies CAUSE anything, did I? All I have said is that *I* do not like them

Ok, you don't like violent movies as I can see. The way I saw it though is you seemed to come down on them as if they're a big problem. I think it's not but the mass media and entertainment industry in general is.

Originally Posted by Nayr747

Why don't YOU try getting to the root of the problem. The media? Wow, now it's clear...

Do I need to paint a picture?

What's the phrase in the news business? The only good news is bad news? Say there is a new solar powered train that will save the U.S. millions in energy. It'll probably get a nice segment on the 10 o'clock news. Now that same train de-rails and kills hundreds, around the clock coverage.

Just look what has been all over the place in the past couple of years.
Scott Peterson murder trial.
Michael Jackson child sex scandal.

That's just the news, what about prime time TV? Reality TV is just getting out of hand. We have shows that focus on who is going to sleep with who before this person finds out. Wow, sounds like an award winner. We also have people risking their lives for a few thousand dollars. Is that a nice lesson for our kids? Strapping a rocket to your back to fly over a pit of Great White sharks and risk your life is worth a few extra dollars?

Desperate Housewives is one that people are torn on. Really though, what's entertaining about a bunch of wives cheating on their husbands and trying to keep it a secret?

Old school Jerry Springer anyone?

The internet is another thing that is a good but also a bad thing. Anybody can access anything at the touch of their fingers. There are pornographic, actual videos of people dying, profanity images, and other things I don't think you'd want your kid to see.

Also the music industry can be blamed too. What's popular among kids today? A rapper saying "slap tha bitch, fuck tha hozzz"?

The movie industry is also another. Hostel was a mentioned movie and I'll say I saw it and didn't like it. The first half was a porno and I payed to see a horror. When the actual horror part came you didn't feel sorry for the characters as they seemed to get what was coming to them. Not to mention it was hyped up at being so violent, it wasn't.

The video game industry just shows how violence is big in our society. GTA:SA was the best selling game on the PS2.

I guess you could say this all started back during Vietnam and the "revolution" of the 1960s. There's a reason Vietnam was called "the war that was fought in our livingrooms." Ever since then it seems that the mass media has been trying to push its limits. Whether it be TV, news, radio, film, internet, ect.

Originally Posted by Nayr747

Hey muscletang, now you know what you're doing this friday night with your girlfriend/wife/kids

I do. I'm probably going to go see Silent Hill with some friends or maybe go to a party. You?

Originally Posted by Nayr747

And think of the fond memories your kids will have when they see whatever demented scene that's 10 times as bad as those shown today. What a great fu*king world we live in.

That's why there are rating systems. When I have kids, I won't be taking them to movies like that. I saw some parents at Underworld 2 that had their kids there between 7-10. During certain parts I could hear the kids screaming in horror.

This brings up another point, a whole lot of this is the parents fault from the past couple of generations. They want their kids to be raised by the idiot box, computer, ect. They then raise hell when they don't like what their kids are being taught. Nayr747 I'm not accussing you of this either.

There are rating systems for movies and games. We have the V-chip for the TV so your kids won't see anything you don't like. There are also blockers and filters for the internet so your kid won't stumble onto something.

You also complain that things are really bad now and will be much, much worse in the future. Maybe, but I don't think it'll be much worse from now. I can see it in the game industry and maybe TV, trying to really push the limits and see what they can get away with, but not in films.

As I stated, Vietnam was called the war fought in our livingrooms. Some of the stuff they showed back then would never be allowed to air today if it was the same situation.

Also, if you're old enough, anybody remember Faces of Death that was released in the late '70's? That movie was suppose to have scenes of people actually dying. Though some say all of them are a fake, either way, fake or not it was a movie of just people dying. At least Hostel and Saw have a story. This thing spawned about six to seven sequals and several other movie mini-series like it.

That was almost 30 years ago. If the affects of movies like Faces of Death caused movies like Hostel, Saw, ect to come out after 30 years, I don't see Saw or Hostel producing aweful, aweful movies 30 years from now.

[turtlecrxsi]

Truth is stranger than fiction...

You all bring up really good points. The one about 2 hours of your life being wasted. I think people just watch stuff to the end to find out what happens and then they get mad when the whole thing was a disappointment and the only thing they remember from it is the awful gore displayed. I'll even admit that I am guilty of such. As a matter of fact, most movies are pretty disappointing to me...

I have to ask though. What is this movie the original poster keeps referring to about "raping and killing babies"? I've never heard of anything with this kind of content being released without the FCC having something to say about it. Most movies released these days are pg-13; especially horror movies... for the simple fact they are all pretty weak. Even some rated R movies just plain suck. For example, somebody mentioned "Saw" and I thought it was pretty weak sauce so I decided seeing "Saw II" was probably a waste of time... although, people keep raving about it. I too do not wish to waste my time on stupid plotless movies such as "Hostel." My wife wants to see it for the shock value since she's been a huge horror fan all of her life. Anybody notice that "Hostel" was filmed oversees with all no-named actors? Sometimes these movies are intriguing though. Has anybody seen any work by Takishi Mike - Japanese horror filmmaker? There is a lot of weird shit in those films... incest, rape, murder... but it is a big deal in Japan same as the stuff you see in this country. Why? I don't know but I agree that there should be some censoring to younger kids being exposed to graphic violence or even some literary violence in the printed word of books.

[speedphreak]

Movies are a form of enjoyment. If you don't enjoy them, don't watch them. And remember, they are just movies. You don't see people hacking away at someones corpse because they watched Saw or Hostel. Also I see it as a form of art..I beleive its called Shock Media or Shock Art. This kind of "whatever you want to call it" raises questions, flinches eyebrows and does in fact draw crowds...Hence why you saw and know about it. DUH! Get a life and go watch Lifetime! ha!

-Chris

[speedphreak]

Wow, after reading more posts and waisting 1 minute of my life.....Don't blame the movies, blame the media. Its how you hear about everything. In fact, maybe you should lock your self in a bomb shelter. You are gonna hear about this "messed up stuff" everywhere you go! You must be really sheltered. And by the way, messed up stuff really does happen, its life..deal with it man, seriously. Its sad, but its the world we live in today.

-Chris

[misfitXJ_97]

Its not like these movies are meant to get you off by seein someone get raped or killed they are there to show how that not everything is all bunnies and roses, thats all bullshit walk outside and if ou are in a decent sized city alot of this shit exists in one form or another rape happens pointless killings happens, im not saying that everything that a movie says is true but im sure that there was some kind of influence for HOSTEL I mean alot of people are F ed up in the head and think that really doin this is cool. Its a movie get over it, and dont try to be a F ing Nazi and say oh your screwed up because you saw that movie.

[Nayr747]

Okay, for the media did it thing; that is so played out. It's always "the media." Something so broad will never be true. And if you think about it we're both saying the same thing. I'm saying these images on a movie screen are bad, etc, and you are saying these images on the tv sceeen are bad... But you are still saying that I somehow *blamed* movies for something. While I do think that all the negative images (including things like Desperate Housewives, the news, movies, music, etc) has some general affect over a long period of time on the general public, just like the clothes people in general wear affect everyone (you wear what you do because everyone else does). But I think that these things are more of a RELFECTION of the society not the CAUSE.

For the people saying life has these things in it too; Life has a lot of things, many of which I, and any other normal person, would not want to pay $10 and waste 2 hours to see. Do you also pay money to go see a murder in an alley??? Or someone being tortured in a crack house??? Babies are raped in the world. Will you be going to see a movie showing two hours of baby raping because it happens in the world? Would you wonder about the people that did go see it, or the people that made it?

As for the movies having some meaning about life; LOL! Are you serious? These movies have no meaning, no plot, no point. As was said before, they are just about the actual torture, pain, and misery as a form of amusement. Public hanging/guillotine anyone?

And look, you're not fooling anybody. If you like seeing things like rape, murder, and incest, as one of you put it, then there is actually something wrong with you. Or is there nothing wrong with the person who likes kiddy porn? EXACTLY THE SAME RELATIONSHIP.

Originally Posted by turtlecrxsi

What is this movie the original poster keeps referring to about "raping and killing babies"? I've never heard of anything with this kind of content being released without the FCC having something to say about it.

Interesting. And why exactly would that scene not be okay yet others are? What differentiates these two things? And why, if they are "just movies," and "they don't mean anything about the people who watch them," and that "these things happen in the world," can't babies being raped be show? What about animals being tortured? To answer you though, it was a hypothetical situation to illustrate that people do not tolerate some things while tolerating others. I don't believe any rational thing seperates these images. Just like most things in society, people just randomly decide on something and everyone goes along with it. According to Socrates and many others, this is the downside to democracy (which he lived in).

[Muscletang]

Originally Posted by Nayr747

Okay, for the media did it thing; that is so played out. It's always "the media." Something so broad will never be true. And if you think about it we're both saying the same thing. I'm saying these images on a movie screen are bad, etc, and you are saying these images on the tv sceeen are bad...

I don't think the media is white as snow. I do believe they've had an impact on things.

Originally Posted by Nayr747

But you are still saying that I somehow *blamed* movies for something. While I do think that all the negative images (including things like Desperate Housewives, the news, movies, music, etc) has some general affect over a long period of time on the general public, just like the clothes people in general wear affect everyone (you wear what you do because everyone else does). But I think that these things are more of a RELFECTION of the society not the CAUSE.

Ok, but you seem to be focused on movies. As I said, there are internet sites with actual murders on film, incest stories, kiddy porn, very graphic images, animals being tortured, and many other weird things I couldn't see a normal person viewing.

Yes it's in the movie industry but some of the rap music you hear talks about killing people, doing hard drugs, and things of that nature.

As I said, even though you may not agree, I think the media in general is slowly starting to accept this stuff for the shock factor it gets.

[turtlecrxsi]

Originally Posted by Nayr747

Okay, for the media did it thing; that is so played out. It's always "the media." Something so broad will never be true. And if you think about it we're both saying the same thing. I'm saying these images on a movie screen are bad, etc, and you are saying these images on the tv sceeen are bad... But you are still saying that I somehow *blamed* movies for something. While I do think that all the negative images (including things like Desperate Housewives, the news, movies, music, etc) has some general affect over a long period of time on the general public, just like the clothes people in general wear affect everyone (you wear what you do because everyone else does). But I think that these things are more of a RELFECTION of the society not the CAUSE.

For the people saying life has these things in it too; Life has a lot of things, many of which I, and any other normal person, would not want to pay $10 and waste 2 hours to see. Do you also pay money to go see a murder in an alley??? Or someone being tortured in a crack house??? Babies are raped in the world. Will you be going to see a movie showing two hours of baby raping because it happens in the world? Would you wonder about the people that did go see it, or the people that made it?

As for the movies having some meaning about life; LOL! Are you serious? These movies have no meaning, no plot, no point. As was said before, they are just about the actual torture, pain, and misery as a form of amusement. Public hanging/guillotine anyone?

And look, you're not fooling anybody. If you like seeing things like rape, murder, and incest, as one of you put it, then there is actually something wrong with you. Or is there nothing wrong with the person who likes kiddy porn? EXACTLY THE SAME RELATIONSHIP.


Interesting. And why exactly would that scene not be okay yet others are? What differentiates these two things? And why, if they are "just movies," and "they don't mean anything about the people who watch them," and that "these things happen in the world," can't babies being raped be show? What about animals being tortured? To answer you though, it was a hypothetical situation to illustrate that people do not tolerate some things while tolerating others. I don't believe any rational thing seperates these images. Just like most things in society, people just randomly decide on something and everyone goes along with it. According to Socrates and many others, this is the downside to democracy (which he lived in).

Okay. You're just beating a dead horse in the mouth now. You can't name a specific title with "babies being raped" so drop it. If you want to talk about violence and gore that will make you puke your lunch, I can suggest plenty of titles. Hell, it's the 21st century and violence and reality is all the rave. Haven't you heard? Just play any first person shooter video game.

The point is that some people like blood and gore in the movies, but they may not in real life. I like watching CSI but I don't like seeing homicide scenes for real. Why? Because I know the difference between fiction and reality. I guess you still get the two confused though. Like Muscletang said (and obviously gets it) you are emphasizing movies. I don't go to the movies anymore because I refuse to waste my money on the trash that is put on the screen. It's all fake anyway. And most of it is done on computer anyway... haha. I can't believe this is such a big issue for you. My advice... don't watch any foreign films... they tend to be more racy than the ones the FCC allows here...

[Nayr747]

Originally Posted by turtlecrxsi

Okay. You're just beating a dead horse in the mouth now. You can't name a specific title with "babies being raped" so drop it. If you want to talk about violence and gore that will make you puke your lunch, I can suggest plenty of titles. Hell, it's the 21st century and violence and reality is all the rave. Haven't you heard? Just play any first person shooter video game.

The point is that some people like blood and gore in the movies, but they may not in real life. I like watching CSI but I don't like seeing homicide scenes for real. Why? Because I know the difference between fiction and reality. I guess you still get the two confused though. Like Muscletang said (and obviously gets it) you are emphasizing movies. I don't go to the movies anymore because I refuse to waste my money on the trash that is put on the screen. It's all fake anyway. And most of it is done on computer anyway... haha. I can't believe this is such a big issue for you. My advice... don't watch any foreign films... they tend to be more racy than the ones the FCC allows here...

Okay, I replied to what you asked about the baby thing about three posts up. That I can't name a specific movie with a scene like that is actually the point...

I am emphasizing movies because it's the only place I've seen such messed up crap. And no, I don't just like flowers and sunshine and lollypops. I just have a problem with seeing someone screaming in pain while thier skin is ripped off. No one else has a problem with this?

And I don't have a problem with foreign films. By "racy" I'm guessing you mean they have sexual content. That's a plus in my book . This culture is seriously way to prudish. Think about it, you can't show boobs but you can show someone shooting someone in the head on tv. I can tell you when I have kids, if I don't live in Europe already, they'll sure as hell be watching the "racy" shit instead of violence. And they'll be better off for it.

[turtlecrxsi]

Okay. I think we're on the same page. By foreign films, yeah they have sexual content but some have some outlandish gore as well. Some of the Japanese movies are hard to stomach. Honestly, I can handle film because I've studied it extensively. That's why I don't mind watching these CSI shows with the autopsies etc. as much. However, if I had to deal with this stuff on a regular basis like my brother (funeral director) I probably couldn't do it. You're right about kids and what they watch too. But it's hard to keep the fetish stuff outside the realm of what is acceptable sexual content. There are always those, like Quentin Tarantino for example, who will take it much too far just for the shock effect on the audience. I wrote a creative thesis for my masters degree using a similar type of character who proves to be more human than the others thought he was and it shows up in his work/movie that he writes/co-directs. Unfortunately, these results are hard to come by in reality.

[imtheoneandonlyD]

I honestly thought saw and saw 2 were great movies. Not because of the violence. Because of the twists and turns the storyline took.

[Rally Sport]

Originally Posted by imtheoneandonlyD

I honestly thought saw and saw 2 were great movies. Not because of the violence. Because of the twists and turns the storyline took.

Honestly thats what made me like the movies, although some people just died stupidly or was left to die.. like the chick in Saw 2 who stuck both her hands up the box to reach the syringe only to knock it over and just stand there like a dumbass. She got