Here's the setup I'm going with... What's missing?

[E-Klips]

Originally Posted by BoostedSpyder

...BTW if you were thinking about it you don't need cam gears. it was a waste of $$ for me. the ECU auto adjusts anyways so all you could do was add in a couple of degrees of timing and the ecu would take it back out. but they do look nice...

Wrong...

The reason your car idles like shit is cause your cams are not degreed. There for you need cam gears. My car idles like stock with 272s.

Cam gears set valve timing. The ECU controls fuel and spark timing, nothing else timing related. Cam gears are not a waste of money if you know how to use them and have the tools to set them correctly.

When you put new cams in, the correct way to do it is using a degree wheel to figure out when the valve opens and closes while the piston is moving up and down in the cylinder. If you have a resurfaced head or block, or even both, the degree your valves open will be different from stock. Especially with different cams. There for you use the cam gears to set the correct degree and so on. Very simple actually, just need to have the equipment to do it right. Then when you are on the dyno or even at the track you can advance or retard the cam gears to gain even more power.

Cam gears arent made to just look pretty in an engine bay. They have a performance purpose. Using cam gears on stock cams wont do much but when you start putting 272s or 264s in, thats where they start to do their job.


Also, why are you using a V-band flange to hold your "massive filter" on? There is no need for that and its not going to work unless you can find a aluminum V-band flange, have it welded to your turbo inlet, and have one clamped to the filter. Just use a worm clamp or t-bolt clamp instead and attach it directly to the compressor housing. Less clutter and BS in the intake system.

You dont need 9:1 compression either. Especially using an AFC to tune with. The higher compression, the less margin of error you have to work with. Meaning if you tune it wrong, you knock easier and you have a higher risk of blowing your motor. Why do you think stock 6 bolts take so much abuse, they have a 7.8:1 compression ratio.

You dont need to lighten the crank. The most you are going to achieve is 400hp and the lightened crank isnt going to do you much at that level. I know a hand full of guys running 600+hp and have a stock crank in their blocks. Nothing done to it. Shit, my block has less than $100 in machining and it will hold to 800hp. Not worried at all and I'm running a built 7 bolt (block and head).

You dont need a tubular header... You just want it cause it looks pretty, well thats $500 that you should spend on DSMLink instead of using the AFC! Sell the AFC for $200 and the datalogger for $100, then you have $800 towards DSMLink. People run 500+HP on the stock 2g manifold daily. Whats wrong with the stock manifold?

The stock fuel rail will do you fine. It is large enough to support more power than you'll ever need. I'm running a stock fuel rail and my setup will support 1000hp easily. Upgrade the injectors, pump and fuel pressure regulator and you will be fine.


Everything I listed is my opinion and what I've seen and had work. Not saying you have to do any of this, just telling you want you do and dont need to achieve your goal. I've had my share of 12s, 11s and currently I have the power to easily reach 10s. You dont need expensive parts or high quality parts to get you there. Like the exhaust manifold or lightened crank. Put that money some place useful like DSMLink. That is my suggestion. Cause currently with your setup, that is about the most you are going to get out of your AFC. Also, tuning with the AFC and MAFT is not easy. So if you ever want more power you will either need DSMLink or EMS of some sort. Then its just more expensive down the line by upgrading twice instead of just upgrading your turbo, you have to by more supporting mods like DSMLink. Like if you already had it, just upgrading the turbo and your done.

Think about it some more and do a little bit of research... It will save you money in the end. Trust me, I did the same thing, bought all the expensive stuff and got no where. If I would have just took my time and thought about it first I would have went twice as fast for 1/2 the price.

[Blackcrow64]

Originally Posted by E-Klips

Wrong...

The reason your car idles like shit is cause your cams are not degreed. There for you need cam gears. My car idles like stock with 272s.

Cam gears set valve timing. The ECU controls fuel and spark timing, nothing else timing related. Cam gears are not a waste of money if you know how to use them and have the tools to set them correctly.

When you put new cams in, the correct way to do it is using a degree wheel to figure out when the valve opens and closes while the piston is moving up and down in the cylinder. If you have a resurfaced head or block, or even both, the degree your valves open will be different from stock. Especially with different cams. There for you use the cam gears to set the correct degree and so on. Very simple actually, just need to have the equipment to do it right. Then when you are on the dyno or even at the track you can advance or retard the cam gears to gain even more power.

Cam gears arent made to just look pretty in an engine bay. They have a performance purpose. Using cam gears on stock cams wont do much but when you start putting 272s or 264s in, thats where they start to do their job.


Also, why are you using a V-band flange to hold your "massive filter" on? There is no need for that and its not going to work unless you can find a aluminum V-band flange, have it welded to your turbo inlet, and have one clamped to the filter. Just use a worm clamp or t-bolt clamp instead and attach it directly to the compressor housing. Less clutter and BS in the intake system.

You dont need 9:1 compression either. Especially using an AFC to tune with. The higher compression, the less margin of error you have to work with. Meaning if you tune it wrong, you knock easier and you have a higher risk of blowing your motor. Why do you think stock 6 bolts take so much abuse, they have a 7.8:1 compression ratio.

You dont need to lighten the crank. The most you are going to achieve is 400hp and the lightened crank isnt going to do you much at that level. I know a hand full of guys running 600+hp and have a stock crank in their blocks. Nothing done to it. Shit, my block has less than $100 in machining and it will hold to 800hp. Not worried at all and I'm running a built 7 bolt (block and head).

You dont need a tubular header... You just want it cause it looks pretty, well thats $500 that you should spend on DSMLink instead of using the AFC! Sell the AFC for $200 and the datalogger for $100, then you have $800 towards DSMLink. People run 500+HP on the stock 2g manifold daily. Whats wrong with the stock manifold?

The stock fuel rail will do you fine. It is large enough to support more power than you'll ever need. I'm running a stock fuel rail and my setup will support 1000hp easily. Upgrade the injectors, pump and fuel pressure regulator and you will be fine.


Everything I listed is my opinion and what I've seen and had work. Not saying you have to do any of this, just telling you want you do and dont need to achieve your goal. I've had my share of 12s, 11s and currently I have the power to easily reach 10s. You dont need expensive parts or high quality parts to get you there. Like the exhaust manifold or lightened crank. Put that money some place useful like DSMLink. That is my suggestion. Cause currently with your setup, that is about the most you are going to get out of your AFC. Also, tuning with the AFC and MAFT is not easy. So if you ever want more power you will either need DSMLink or EMS of some sort. Then its just more expensive down the line by upgrading twice instead of just upgrading your turbo, you have to by more supporting mods like DSMLink. Like if you already had it, just upgrading the turbo and your done.

Think about it some more and do a little bit of research... It will save you money in the end. Trust me, I did the same thing, bought all the expensive stuff and got no where. If I would have just took my time and thought about it first I would have went twice as fast for 1/2 the price.

Oh I completely understand that there are things that don't need to be done, such as the 2g manifold. But, I need to run an external wastegate because the internal acuator doesn't work correctly on it. Plus, the 18g I have has a t3 flange and wouldn't bolt right up to our stock manifolds. I found a guy that is selling tubular headers for 140 bucks brand new. I'm sure they are made from his garage and I'm ok with that. I know that when we buy parts from companys like Greddy and Apexi that we are mostly paying for the name. Name brand parts are not an issue to me. The whole v-band thing was something I just threw in the list just for the heck of it. I have lots of t-bolt clamps I can use but I just thought I'd v-band it anyways. Just personal opinion on that I think... As for the crank, I know that lots of people run their stock cranks (IIRC, Shepherd was runnig his 8's on a stock crank?) and I can, but like I said in my first post I just wanted opinons on it. Rest assured I have done my research on almost everything. I'm sure there are a few things I am not comprehending(spelling?) correctly but thats why I am posting my list and asking. I figured it would be best to eliminate as much rotating mass as possible for a quicker reving motor. Am I going about doing that the wrong way? I know there are lots of little things that can be done too but I wanna focus on the larger gain ones... Do you believe that lightening the crank drastically worsens its strength?... I am wanting to do everything right, but I am also trying to do some things a little different than the typical DSM build-up. Thats the reason I wanna use the MAFT and AFC. I just don't wanna have any fancy programs that require a laptop to tune and change settings and such... I just haven't seen much of DSMLink before and don't really know what all its capable of. I like to keep it to parts and tools that I can understand. lol Also, I don't plan on running any faster than 11's ever. If I see 11.99 I'll be happy with that and won't change anything else on the car. If I only make it into the low 12's then I can be satisfied with that too I guess. lol

Am I a complete moron yet? lol

[NateS]

You sound like a man who knows what he wants. Haha. Oh and I too am looking into some cams and most places such as hks recomend that you upgrade your valve springs to gain everything you can from the cams. Here is a kit from hks that I am looking into http://www.dsmparts.com/customer/pro...cat=138&page=1 I have read that you really don't need to upgrade your valve springs but, it is a good idea.

[Thor06]

Kevin used his stock springs, retainers, and valves on 272's out to 8500 rpms with no problems even when he got pretty deep into the 11's (11.2 to be exact IIRC). If you get some FP5's or something, I dont think you'll have an option but to get dual springs, but on 272's, fp2's/101200's, or anthing less than those you'll be fine.

[-Josh-]

Originally Posted by Thor06

Kevin used his stock springs, retainers, and valves in his 11 sec Talon and revved out to 8500 and had 272/272's (264's and 272's are made by HKS ) with no problems, so I think aftermarket stuff is pointless. Other than that, your list looks pretty good.

You can never be to cautious, i would say at least to inspect them first, and if they appear to need replacing then go ahead and do it.

[Blackcrow64]

Originally Posted by -Josh-

You can never be to cautious, i would say at least to inspect them first, and if they appear to need replacing then go ahead and do it.

Yeah, I agree on that one.

One of the major reasons I wanna make sure there are all new parts in this is because its gonna be my daily driver and I don't wanna have things breaking on it later and have to tear it apart again because I cut corners on rebuilding it. I want it to take the abuse of daily driving but also take the abuse of running it at the track without breaking major components on it. I know its a DSM but I think it can be built to not break.

[E-Klips]

Just remember...

Cheap - Reliable - Fast

Pick 2.

[Blackcrow64]

Originally Posted by E-Klips

Just remember...

Cheap - Reliable - Fast

Pick 2.

I pick reliable and fast. lol