Another Turbonator?

[MrNelson]

Back from la, la land, Tell these guys they are wasting their time on hydrogen fuel...I think the oil empires have you by the balls.

Open your eyes fools.

Start here http://www.emagazine.com/view/?171
There are also many groups about hydrogen fuel - just search for them.

http://hy-drive.com/main/default.asp

http://www.burnh20.com/

http://www.chechfi.com/

http://www.gogreenfuel.com/

[blazee]

It's becoming pretty obvious that this guy is either selling or installing these paperweights. He thought that he could come in here, play it cool, and dupe some of us into buying this junk. BUT......

[s10blazerman4x4]

lol you let him off easy blazee way too easy.Are you reforming?

[MrNelson]

Is this forum for kids only? Lataz guys.

[blazee]

Originally Posted by s10blazerman4x4

lol you let him off easy blazee way too easy.Are you reforming?

I wasn't trying to be mean to him, he has as much right to say that it works as we do to say that it doesn't. So far in this thread he is the only one who has broken any of the forum rules. The other posters have talked about the product, he has talked about them. I hope that we can keep it that way so that if this goes any further and one of the mods decides to ban him, he can't use us as an excuse to get it reversed.

[MrNelson]

Please ban me! Or I'm gonna drop one of these rednecks.

[Brian R.]

Sorry guy, you just can't beat thermodynamics. Hydrogen as a fuel has nothing to do with this. You have to be able to add.

[Tangent]

Originally Posted by MrNelson

Is this forum for kids only? Lataz guys.

I see... Your "It does so!" argument gets trumped by the laws of thermodynamics and simple math and this is the best you can do? Petty insults?

If you could at least show us some of your extensive research that has something, anything besides anecdotal evidence I'd be happy to look at it. The closest was the one website that said that the tests were conducted by a 3rd party not affiliated with them. They never even mentioned who did the test or provide contact information for the testing firm. Why has no reputable group tested this and sung its praises? I could create a system in my garage to sell through my corporation and then pay my neighbor $1000 to "test" it. He'd be an unaffiliated 3rd party and I'd have the data I wanted.

How were the tests conducted? What controls were there on the fuel used during the test, what was the weather like, how did they ensure that the test cycle itself was identical from the test with and the test without the unit? Based on my driving habits my own fuel economy can vary by even more than their claimed improvement. I can even get that kind of improvement on the very same route if I decide to drive in an efficient manner.

Most of the links you gave were about Hydrogen as a fuel in general, not this physics-defying gadget. The cool thing about using Hydrogen as a fuel is you can use solar energy to produce it, then burn the fuel that took days to crack in a few hours of driving time. This wonderful little device is essentially promising to be a perpetual motion machine that produces more energy than it takes to run. I'd loveto see the math on that.

If this device was a solar-powered unit that slowly cracked water to hydrogen and filled a bottle you would then attach to the car-mounted unit I would 100% believe all claims. The problem lies in the increased load the engine experiences whiloe it's providing power for the unit to crack the water. As anyone with even basic knowledge of internal combustions engines knows, increased load = lower horsepower to the wheels and more emissions. I'm sure that would be no problem for somebody with basic electrical knowledge and a pair of wire cutters though. *snip* "Oh whaddaya know, this little pre-loaded hydrogen injector suddenly isn't drawing power to produce more hydrogen while we do a dyno test!"

[dmbrisket 51]

think about how this product works for one second, as someone mentioned, energy is neither created nor destroyed, just transfered, but as transfered, something must be lost, when seperating an element down to atoms, there is heat generated, all you are doing with this product is seperating and then recombining water, your final product is your original product with some carbon in it, ah, wait what do we have here??? the water decarbonizes ther moter, thats your gain, the rest is a loss on a 30 amp system, you are loseing somwhere between a Sh*t load and a Fu*k ton of electricity to do what blazerlt explained in quite good detail in one of his thread, it was titled something like 'decarbonizing cyl' or something like that (little help here please lt, thanks), ive made my statement and added my .02 here

[wolfox]

Personally, I like how people have deep convictions...*beliefs* that something works and then how they start popping apart at the rivets when you drop basic math and physics on them that shows it doesn't. Sorry, but if belief drove and propelled my truck down the street, I would be the BIGGEST damn Christian you've ever laid eyes on. Unfortunately, it's not the case, it runs off of gasoline so I am a bigger beiliver in Sun or Phillips for sources of energy to make my wheels move. Don't tell me I am a slave/shill of the oil companies and then drop links to fuzzy, enviro-crap pages completely unrelated to the conversation. True, Hydrogen IS a fuel of the future; once we figure out how to produce it and store *enough* of it to make a viable vehicle that does save energy. Currently, nearly all methods either consume more energy to produce usable fuel, or toxic/caustic byproducts FAR far worse than a well-tuned gasser engine produces. So are you still on the side of the planet and a good environment or what makes money as a buzzword fueled industry that is nothing more than a means to remove money from your wallets even faster and dash the delicate balance of this planet further into the realm of dismal decay?

I thought so. Carry on, don't light or heat areas of the home seldom used - drive gently on a well tuned and maintained truck. (Recycle ALL used fluids wherever possible) You'll do so much more good in this manner., save energy and money. And for those that folded into behaving so childish, so early in this debate -

We're gonna kick your ass at every turn, so take your ball and go home already.

[dmbrisket 51]

Originally Posted by wolfox

Carry on, don't light or heat areas of the home seldom used - drive gently on a well tuned and maintained truck. (Recycle ALL used fluids wherever possible) You'll do so much more good in this manner., save energy and money. And for those that folded into behaving so childish, so early in this debate -

We're gonna kick your ass at every turn, so take your ball and go home already.

for every 3 degrees below 72 you keep your t stat in your house, it saves roughly 10%, this is exponetial, the first three is 10% the second three might only be 8%, its not linear where every 3 is 10, and wolfox, one better for ya, why recycle used fluids? they are petrolium based, they make oil heaters, they are clean and ozone frendly, purchace an oil heater, most shops are willing to give the spent fluid away, they have to pay for disposal if they dont give it to you, so buy the oil furnace, and save 100% on your heating bill and heat with the nasty bi products that vehicals are going to produce!

[wolfox]

Originally Posted by dmbrisket 51

wolfox, one better for ya, why recycle used fluids? they are petrolium based, they make oil heaters, they are clean and ozone frendly, purchace an oil heater, most shops are willing to give the spent fluid away, they have to pay for disposal if they dont give it to you, so buy the oil furnace, and save 100% on your heating bill and heat with the nasty bi products that vehicals are going to produce!

The places I turn in fluids for recycling USE the oil products for heating their garages. They have the specialized burner and distribution system for the heat already set up. (Funky glow tubes and reflectors all along the ceiling with "blower boxes" here and there which hold the oil burner/furnace heads) They gladly take all I can dump on them, it's free energy for them in the end. I rent, and I rent from an old man that will not even so much as let me put up a visible whip antenna on the property I rent. So the argument of installing an Oil furnace where a perfectly good (And high efficiency) gas furnace rests is kinda not going to fly well. As for Antifreeze and the like, the same places will take them from me for a nominal fee. They're charged for having it hauled off to be reclaimed, filtered and made into new products again. $2/gallon is not bad, and with long-life coolant being the norm - not something I have to do often. *shrug* So that's why I recycle...mostly to just put otherwise hazardous materials back into proper use and production. About the only other thing I recycle is aluminum and various other scrap metals.

Plastics are a nightmare to get processed properly and actually cost taxpayers over 4-8x as much as regular trash disposal to be "displaced" to collection centers, sorted ad reprocessed. They cos a fraction on the peny to make in the first place, so there is little to no real incentive there unless you know a place that makes products from various forms of plastics. Luckily, such a place is near to me as well.

I will NOT recycle paper. I will not go into the reasons why but it is wasteful and harmful to the environment. That process is flawed. However, to chop down a tree to make paper products, companies are oblidged to replace the forrests they cut. So if you want more trees, and cleaner air? Dump paper goods in with your regular trash. It's also bio-degradable and most products are now printed with safe, soy based inks.

So there are my main reasons and what and why I recycle what I can. But the senseless addition of weight, dead weight under the engine hood and then having it draw phenomenal amounts of power to load up an engine - further increasing emissions and fuel consumption rates? Sorry, I guess I was one of the lucky ones that didn't get his daily dose of alcohol in his blood surrogate when he was still in the birthing tube. (Brave New World reference - now banned reading...heh imagine that. )

[Cailen]

Energy is lost while converting your engine's mechanical energy in to electrical energy to power the unit. Then when burning the hydrogen to create new mechanical energy you lose a boatload of energy to heat (duh, combustion).

The only way this unit would improve vehicle efficiency is if the electrical energy used to power the unit was "extra" energy produced by the alternator that was going to go unused.

[dmbrisket 51]

and its not, the alternators in our trucks are a lower output and tapped to the max on a loaded blazer

[Cailen]

Mr Nelson is in zip code 83202 according to his profile. gogreenfuel.com is registered at 83201.