crazy import engines

[Schister66]

i wouldn't want to drive a car like that daily tho...not only do i not need something that fast, i don't have the funds to do it. Im 18 (almost 19) and i have to pay for college, and i'm still going to boost......300whp is going to have to be fast enough!

[Moppie]

Funny cars and Rails cars in the US are making well over 5,000hp useing supercharged V8s with massive amounts of displacement.

But they are not the sort of enigne you could drive to the shop. Unless its only 400meters away and you have a full pit crew waiting for you to get there.

[garret_the_driver]

Originally Posted by Moppie

Funny cars and Rails cars in the US are making well over 5,000hp useing supercharged V8s with massive amounts of displacement.

But they are not the sort of enigne you could drive to the shop. Unless its only 400meters away and you have a full pit crew waiting for you to get there.

Other than racing purposes, no one needs that much power.

Originally Posted by Schister66

i wouldn't want to drive a car like that daily tho...not only do i not need something that fast, i don't have the funds to do it. Im 18 (almost 19) and i have to pay for college, and i'm still going to boost......300whp is going to have to be fast enough!

That should be more than aduquit, 300bhp is alot for a GSR

[Schister66]

oh shit...get rid of the B.....its 300WHP!!

[kachok25]

Originally Posted by Black Lotus

You Toyopet guys crack me up, such loyalty!
A Chev V8 is a fine place to start. I'd wager that you'd spend a lot less money to get a 350 Chev to 1,000 HP than a Toyota or whatever. ----------You have a lot more cubic inches on your side----, and a lot more aftermarket support. Unfortunately much of the aftermarket engine support is reletively "low-tech". And finding solid information in magazines like "Hot Rod" on building a maximum effort turbocharged Chevy engine is a pipe dream, as they are still in the retro dark ages.

Uh I would have to disagree with you there, I have seen a stock block stock internal 2jz gte push just over 1000hp just cramming more air and more fuel into it. You will never find any chevy small block that can make that claim. If you were talking about any other import engine I would have to agree with you but not the toyota Supras engine. The modern chevy small blocks are not even realisticaly capable of withstanding that kind of boost, even if you bore and sleave them you are pushing it, I have not seen one do it yet. Anyway comparing modern engine to modern engine you would be spending much more to make the chevy small block reach 1000hp. I usualy don't side for the ricer engine but in this case I have to. BTW the fastest street legal car in America is a Toyota Supra (8.5 sec 1/4 mile) so don't be too quick to bash them. There is a new up and coming 1000hp monster in the near future the new 4g63s. with alot of the stock conponents intact I have seen one pull 740 wheel hp that is just shy of 900hp at the flywheel. It has run into the high 9s. It has over 22k miles on it, it is in the new Jan Turbo magazine. I would love to see a small block chevy beat that, but I am not going to hold my breath. (Side note) The Ls1 motor is one of my fav of all time because without any forced induction on a street legel cam in pure stock trim it can push over 300hp, with just a bolt on supercharger it can exede 500hp (all I would ever want on the street anyway), and it weighs less than some inline 4 bangers, so in that regard the ls1 is just as much a piece of automotive artwork as the 2jz, but it just does not have the strength to handle massive boost. If the supra was avalable with a toyota verson of the LS1 I would personaly take it over the 2jz (who needs 1000hp anyway).

[kachok25]

[quote=Moppie]Funny cars and Rails cars in the US are making well over 5,000hp useing supercharged V8s with massive amounts of displacement.


Yes but moppie those cars are using nitromethane, custom built 500cu inch engines (not production engine blocks), Massive unweildy roots style superchargers. The whole mess costs a fortuine (more than any three 1000hp supras) is not street legal, your fuel is a potent posion, not to mention not accessable to the genreal public, and even if you could get the whole fu**ing mess on the street it would not corner for s**t because of the huge roots superchargers that not only block your view but dagerously raise the canter of gravity of your car. Not to mention that they have to be completly rebuilt every 1/4 mile run, I think you could find a worse engine to put into anything on the street (except for a rotory just kidding guys you were ready to kill me hu?) I dont see how that is making any kind of case for the "American Iron" on this thread. You wanna se what American iron can do on the street? Get a big block chevy, stroke it, give it twin innercoolers, hot heads and cams, forged pistons and rods, a completely reinforced bottom end, and put twin configural superchargers and fuel injection on it then beef up your driveline with a heave duity automatic, a beefy torqueshaft and swap a 14bolt onto the rear. Then you have a supra killer, in a streight line anyway. But by that point you have already spent more than the supra guys did, Sorry but this time I gatta go with the supra.

[jveik]

yeah it does get expensive no matter what way you go. the 720 horse 572 cubic inch gm crate engine is something like 12 grand i think, and thats before you add a blower and all that stuff i dont know anything about lol... however the 260 horse 350 smallblock from gm is only 1300 from jegs with everything except the intake, distributor, and carb. or go with the 290 horse one, just a slight drop in torque, for i think it was 1600. not bad for an engine like that. for it's displacement, in stock form it gets pretty good mileage, a 350 can get maybe 13 - 15 tops in the city for mpg at granny speeds, while my 2.something liter honda gets 26 tops in the city, (both carbureted). 76 horsepower versus 260, with only doubled fuel usage... not bad for a crappy old school motor lol... however, when it comes to modding, i bet the inline fours can make more power per cubic inch, unless you take that smallblock and beef up the internals, and obviously use a 4 bolt main block lol. i dont want to start crap here lol it usually ends up like that tho... ill just say for the record that the only imports i dont like are the ones with the punk kid driving them that claims 500 whatever rwhp with nothing but a fart can and some chromed up intake tube lol. makes the non-poser peeple look bad, and its kinda annoying when they pull up next to you and want to race all the time lol... i have a pickup goddamit leave me alone! lol...

[Schister66]

OHC, whether they are single or dual over head cam, engines have better potential for high end power.....per CC....as far as a comparison to pushrod.....

[kachok25]

Originally Posted by jveik

yeah it does get expensive no matter what way you go. the 720 horse 572 cubic inch gm crate engine is something like 12 grand i think, and thats before you add a blower and all that stuff i dont know anything about lol... however the 260 horse 350 smallblock from gm is only 1300 from jegs with everything except the intake, distributor, and carb. or go with the 290 horse one, just a slight drop in torque, for i think it was 1600. not bad for an engine like that. for it's displacement, in stock form it gets pretty good mileage, a 350 can get maybe 13 - 15 tops in the city for mpg at granny speeds, while my 2.something liter honda gets 26 tops in the city, (both carbureted). 76 horsepower versus 260, with only doubled fuel usage... not bad for a crappy old school motor lol... however, when it comes to modding, i bet the inline fours can make more power per cubic inch, unless you take that smallblock and beef up the internals, and obviously use a 4 bolt main block lol. i dont want to start crap here lol it usually ends up like that tho... ill just say for the record that the only imports i dont like are the ones with the punk kid driving them that claims 500 whatever rwhp with nothing but a fart can and some chromed up intake tube lol. makes the non-poser peeple look bad, and its kinda annoying when they pull up next to you and want to race all the time lol... i have a pickup goddamit leave me alone! lol...

You are very right, no matter which way you go massive HP is expensive, although I personaly think that the Supra would be one of the least expensive since the stock longblock, and drivetrain (maby with the exception of the clutch) are capable of 1000hp, there is not a musclecar on earth that can handle that. Some engines more expensive than others, but I dont think that the modern chevy AL block 5.7 is capable of 1000hp with any internals Like I said before even with sleaves I have not seen one reach anything over 800hp. The block would bust under the pressure. There are a prob a few iron blocks that might take it for a little while, but even they would not last long at that power, and they weigh in at over 500lbs dressed out! Oh but before anybody starts dissing on pushrods lets not forget that the 500hp viper engine, and the 505hp LS7 are pushrod engines.

[Black Lotus]

Originally Posted by kachok25

, but I dont think that the modern chevy AL block 5.7 is capable of 1000hp with any internals Like I said before even with sleaves I have not seen one reach anything over 800hp.

I don't want to be pushed into defending SB Chevys as I don't own one. My personal vehicle is a Lotus Esprit with a modified turbo 2.2L engine. Experience has proven to me that the harder your mindset is, and the more noise you make -- the harder you'll fall.
So, right here in front of me, is a short article with pictures, in the Jan. 2006 "Chevy High Performance" magazine (P.32):a 400 CI smallblock , twin turbo, 1,200 HP, and 20 MPG. Go buy the magazine and read for yourself. Probably could find some more articles like this laying around, but this is the first mag I picked up, and I'm too lazy.
Even 'tho I own cars other than Chevies, I like to read about other cars to see what's going on. I suggest you do the same to retain some perspective.
Like the text says in this article --"you've been had--big time".

[Moppie]

Originally Posted by Black Lotus

My personal vehicle is a Lotus Esprit with a modified turbo 2.2L engine.

Oh the memories........ Howlllllllllll, woosh, warble, hooowwlllll, woosh, warble, hoooowwwwllllllll, woosh warble, howwwwwwwwwl woooosh warble, hooooowwwwllllllllllll wooosh........... oh shit its only a 5sp........ 250+kph showing on the speedo




kachok25 have you seen a 1,000hp Supra or Skyline actualy driven on the street?
Its not pretty and very difficult to do. 5-600hp is about the limit for a street driven Supra or Skyline, and thats only possible with a boost controller that lets you run more conservative power levels to make the car driveable.
At a 1,000hp the engine has no useable power down low, and a very sharp steep power curve once the turbo comes on boost. Its either on, or off. There is no in between, and when combined with the sort of clutch needed to hold that level of power you get a car that will either sit still, or acclerate at speed far to dangerous for street use.

Just because a car retains enough things like lights and indicators to be "street legal" dosn't mean it can still be street driven.


you can get a 1,000hp out of a chevy small block useing some basic tools in your garage, it requires some sepcialist knowledge, but nearly as much as getting 1,000hp out of a Supra engine does, which requires a lot of custom part building and engine tuning.

[kachok25]

Originally Posted by Black Lotus

I don't want to be pushed into defending SB Chevys as I don't own one. My personal vehicle is a Lotus Esprit with a modified turbo 2.2L engine. Experience has proven to me that the harder your mindset is, and the more noise you make -- the harder you'll fall.
So, right here in front of me, is a short article with pictures, in the Jan. 2006 "Chevy High Performance" magazine (P.32):a 400 CI smallblock , twin turbo, 1,200 HP, and 20 MPG. Go buy the magazine and read for yourself. Probably could find some more articles like this laying around, but this is the first mag I picked up, and I'm too lazy.
Even 'tho I own cars other than Chevies, I like to read about other cars to see what's going on. I suggest you do the same to retain some perspective.
Like the text says in this article --"you've been had--big time".

Is this an old iron block, Or the new alumanum block? I did not say that the iron block could not do it, and for your information I am not trying to make aot of noise, I don't know where you are getting that from but you need to ignore it.

[kachok25]

Originally Posted by Moppie

Oh the memories........ Howlllllllllll, woosh, warble, hooowwlllll, woosh, warble, hoooowwwwllllllll, woosh warble, howwwwwwwwwl woooosh warble, hooooowwwwllllllllllll wooosh........... oh shit its only a 5sp........ 250+kph showing on the speedo




kachok25 have you seen a 1,000hp Supra or Skyline actualy driven on the street?
Its not pretty and very difficult to do. 5-600hp is about the limit for a street driven Supra or Skyline, and thats only possible with a boost controller that lets you run more conservative power levels to make the car driveable.
At a 1,000hp the engine has no useable power down low, and a very sharp steep power curve once the turbo comes on boost. Its either on, or off. There is no in between, and when combined with the sort of clutch needed to hold that level of power you get a car that will either sit still, or acclerate at speed far to dangerous for street use.

Just because a car retains enough things like lights and indicators to be "street legal" dosn't mean it can still be street driven.


you can get a 1,000hp out of a chevy small block useing some basic tools in your garage, it requires some sepcialist knowledge, but nearly as much as getting 1,000hp out of a Supra engine does, which requires a lot of custom part building and engine tuning.

There are not many mk4 supras around here but I do know for a fact that the 8.5 second supra that I was talking about is driven on the street, the owner was commenting on the looks that police officers give him driving a car with drag chutes on the back. The power curve of an engine depends on alot of factors, to assume that nobody could make a drivable 1000hp 3.0L engine is very narrowminded in my oppinion. I have seen engines use a combanation of a positive displacement supercharger and a turbo. The supercharger all but elimanates the turbolag, and the higher thermal effencency of the turbo keeps the intake temps down at high rpm. Plus now there are variable geometry turbos, that spool faster, and provide equal top end boost as similar conventional turbos. Hence flatter power curve. You are assuming that we are using twenty year old technology here, there is a new wave of advanced boost control, and ALS out there that you should research. And I have seen a supra running over 1000hp with the stock internals which means it is most likely running the stock CR, which means that it still has simmilar low end torque to the production model even without boost, and I have never heard anybody complain about the supra not having drivable torque.
I can get a complete T88h turbokit with 900+hp flow rating for only $3,500!http://workspower.net/sut8tukit.html add $2500 gofast goodies an ECU upgrade, larger injectors, boost control, and a high cap intercooler, and we are looking at 6000 dollars (yea I priced the parts) to build a 600-700hp monster. I would like to see someone try to make an LS1 700 hp on that kind of budget (not counting NOS). The supras internals have been proven solid beyond 1000hp so it's inharent advantage is that you do not need a shop to pull your motor and rebuild the block from the ground up, saving you alot of money.
Oh and what basic tools could you use to raise a modern smallblock too 1000hp??? That would require extensive internal work plus expensive bolt ons. A vortech supercharger alone that can handle that is $2800 the forged pistions and rods would run you around $1200, now labor for a rebuild like that is going to be around $2000, now you have already spent the Supras budget and you still have not bored and sleaved your block, upgraded your fuel injectors, installed a stronger crank, tweaked your ECU, bought (or modified) your high flow heads, instaled any kind of boost management, of ducting for your supercharger, installed any kind of intercooler or aftercooler (which is nessasary for the kind of boost you need) or upgraded your insuficient exaust system.
Even if you went the cheap and inpractical route and bolted a large roots supercharger on a carburated iron block and gave it a wet shot of NOS you would still be looking at a little more money and much less practicality. I don't mean to be insulting but for goodness sake how could you even hope to compare these two engines?? I think the LS1 is great for 400-500hp applacations but it just needs too much work to reach the 2jz-GTE power potental.
Even if you could make your 350ci camaro 700hp on the same budget(which I highly doubt) consider the drivetrain, you would litteraly have to replace it completly! While the Supra can survive 700hp easly with nothing more than a new high proformance clutch.
Sorry but when it comes to these cars the Supra has you beat hands down, go pick on the civics or somthing thats my

[Moppie]

You really know nothing about engines do you?
You've clearly never built a race engine, and I doubt you have done anything more than a basic oil change and tune up, maybe changed some spark plugs gapped a set of points, if you know what they are.


The 8sec Supra might have been driven on the street, but I doubt it was making a 1,000hp at the time.
As you said boost control has come along way, and its very easy have several fuel/ignition maps stored in an aftermarket ECU to match differnt boost levels.
All of which can quite radicaly alter how an engine behaves.


And you don't honestly think you can bolt on a few thousand dollars worth of parts to a 2jz and be making a 900hp? Your kit only includes the Turbo, manifolds and wastegate.
You would have to spend that much again on fuel lines, injectors, fuel pumps, and ignition parts
Then to get even close to 900hp would would need to spend that much again prepping flowing the head, and getting cams ground, new pistons, all new enigne management, raidator, oil cooler etc etc
Then several weeks work to install all the parts, and unless you have a very advanced dyno in your garage and the knowledge and experiance to tune a 900hp engine, you could spend thousands more getting it tuned and running properly.
Even useing the stock block and rods you would still be spending an easy $15,000 on parts alone.


Im not belittling the 2jz, or the RB26, or VQ30 or 4g63, or any of the other unbelivably strong small capacity Japanese engines. A 1,000hp from 2-3litres is very impressive.
But its at the absolute limits of what these engines are capable of, and requires a huge level of investment in both time and parts as well as the knowledge and skill to put it all together.



A small block chev with twice the capacity and an extra 30 years of development history behind it simply gives it advantages in terms of the ablity to make power none of the Japanese engines can match.
People have been making 1,000hp small blocks since before the people who designed the 2jz knew what an engine was.

[beyondloadedSE]

Originally Posted by Moppie

have you seen a 1,000hp Supra or Skyline actualy driven on the street?

Heres your daily driven street trim 1500 whp Supra.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Toyot...74824399QQrdZ1