(update alert!!06/20/06) Racing Game Pre-Production: Need Your Advice, All!!!

[-Josh-]

Originally Posted by Killing Moon

Okay, within the GDD, I have so far the ability to tune your ECU and Turbo/Supercharger according to RPMs. However, I don't necessarily want to express it in the same way that NFS: Underground 2 did (though they did an admirable job for EA).

I'm going to play off a completely clean slate here. How exactly does one modify the crankshafts and pistons. Also, what methods do you think would be BETTER to apply than the balance graph that was used in NFS:U2?

Being able to adjust the boost levels would be cool. Like on a supercharger you could buy different pulley's for it, or buy a boost controller for turbo's...but... Reinforcing the internals would be a good option..see below for example..

By modifying internal components you can have them ground/machined and polished. Say you have an N/A engine with basic internals. Before you could run high boost you would have to get forged pistons, crank etc... Let the game let you run high boost, but if they do, make consequences, and then make them do an engine swap if they blow the engine...such as Toksin mentioned.

For tuning domestics, there's a lot you could do that would also be something for gear heads but not something that noobs would HAVE to do...such as rocker arm clearences, 1.6/1.5 rockers etc...adjusting the valve train components would be cool. Changing the final drive ratio for different types of races would be cool. Like a type of dyno tuning mode like NFS except more in depth tuning would be sweet. Tuning with an SAFC type thing would be cool on dyno's as well. PERFORMANCE ORIENTED GAME PLEASE!!! Let the gamer have total control of how bad or good his car will run, just like in real life, if he can't tune it...he better learn how... Just a few suggestions for now, i'm sure some more will pop in my head, i just thought these would be cool.. If you do this, i will definately buy your game.

[Jet-Lee]

What I had in a computer game, that I've yet to see on console, is the ability to change gear ratios. THAT is what I love.

Things to be able to tune:
1. Gear Ratios
2. Compression Ratios
3. Boost (when it hits full)
4. Tire Pressures
5. A/F Ratios
6. Cam lift/duration
7. Stroke
8. Bore
9. 3/5/hi.per. valve grinds
10. Camber
11. Toe
12. weight distribution
13. (stretch) like a windtunnel, where you can see what effects different exterior pieces have on the aerodynamics of the car, and that have an effect on the handling characteristics of the car.

Get some Euro underdogs in there:

Escort Cosworth RS/WRC
Sierra Cosworth WRC
Merkur Scorpio
Merkur XR4ti

Hybrid's? They're coming whether we like it or not.

Maybe have the "leaf blower" option for the cars, instead of turbo or supercharger, so some guys can build an all motor car with a leaf blower and have fun.

It HAS to be on Xbox360 and Xbox Live, AT LEAST.

NOT a lot of exotics or supercars.

REAL WORLD DAMAGE capable of being turned on or off.

Engine Swaps

Transmission swaps

Final Drive Ratio tuning

I'm out of ideas for the moment.

Do we get preproduction releases of the game??

[Rally Sport]

One thing me and my friend were talking about on NFSU

No damage which sucked. So what you can do is this

Have a similar point system like NFS did but it gives you more money if you do it like PERFECT, no wall crashing/scraping, like 50 bucks deducted in the begenning of every race for new tires, then money deducted if you really mess up your car for paint/body damage.

[ec437]

Originally Posted by Killing Moon

BMW so far:
1. ’05 330i
2. ’87 325i E30 '91 325is
3. ’95 325i E36 325is
4. ’03 325i E46 Compact 325is
5. ’91 318i E30 Two Door Sedan 318is
6. ’03 525i I'd rather have the 530 or 540
7. ’95 525i again I'd rather have the 535 or 540
8. ’86 525i '87 535is euro
9. ’76 635 CSi
10. ’88 M3 Evolution II '91 M3 evo III
11. ’94 850 Csi
12. ’99 M-Coupe
13. ’99 Z07 Concept
14. ’99 Z9 Concept
15. ’05 M3 Competition
16. ’03 M3 CSL
17. ’05 M6
18. ’05 M5
19. ’06 760Li
20. ’03 Z4 3.0i
21. ’02 M3 GTR Strasse
22. ’01 M3 GTR
23. ’99 V12 LMR
24. ’06 M3

There, I changed your list a little. What should be different I put in bold on the side.

Also you should have:
1955 507
1975 3.0CSL
1974 2002tii
1974 2002 turbo
1980 M1
1987 M6 euro (or 635csi euro)
1988 Z1
1994 750i
2001 Z8

a GREAT place to go for advice on the interface for modifications would be the community forum at www.BMWe30.net. They will have excellent input.

I also think it would be cool if you had Alpina, Hartge, and Dinan models of the BMWs. But that would be overkill.

You also have one of all the generations of the M5. www.bmwworld.com if you want to read up.

[Killing Moon]

Originally Posted by Z28Josh

Being able to adjust the boost levels would be cool. Like on a supercharger you could buy different pulley's for it, or buy a boost controller for turbo's...but... Reinforcing the internals would be a good option..see below for example..

Okay, I have that.
Question: how many stages are there for supercharger pulley upgrades exactly? They key to this is to make it easy to learn, difficult to master. So if I had to break it down in layman's terms, how would you describe it?

Originally Posted by Z28Josh

By modifying internal components you can have them ground/machined and polished. Say you have an N/A engine with basic internals. Before you could run high boost you would have to get forged pistons, crank etc... Let the game let you run high boost, but if they do, make consequences, and then make them do an engine swap if they blow the engine...such as Toksin mentioned.

Y'know, I just asked this question the other day too. Technically you'll need to add some NA upgrades to withstand the forced induction pressure.

Gotcha'.

For tuning domestics, there's a lot you could do that would also be something for gear heads but not something that noobs would HAVE to do...such as rocker arm clearences, 1.6/1.5 rockers etc...adjusting the valve train components would be cool. Changing the final drive ratio for different types of races would be cool.[/quote]

Now I'm aware of GT's method of this, but it seems like either compressing or expanding the gears. Is this the same thing? If not, then what am I missing?

Originally Posted by Z28Josh

Like a type of dyno tuning mode like NFS except more in depth tuning would be sweet. Tuning with an SAFC type thing would be cool on dyno's as well.

SAFC?!

[Rally Sport]

Hope you dont do it like NFS did with their chart with Turbo/ECU cause it was horrible, and dont have any guys telling you the same thing over and over once you get out and come back to the same screen.

[ec437]

You should also have some lexuses. Perhaps something like the '95 sc400, '01 is300, '04 sc430, etc. I'm not sure which others would be good for racing. Not the LS series though.

I think this was also already mentioned, but you should make engine swaps and transmission swaps available. There are certain engines and transmissions that are popular to swap between BMWs. The engine and transmission from the '95 m3 is one of these combos.

I would also like to see more realistic prices for cars and modifications.

[Killing Moon]

This is some of the list of modifications available so far. Eat it alive, people, rip it apart and let me know where I need to improve it!!

Upgrade Components

[ec437]

You should add the ability to have a standalone engine management system, something like Megasquirt. Then you could incorporate the actual megasquirt software interface into the game, which would be VERY cool.

In your mods list, I spot fiberglass body panels. No, it should be carbon fiber or aluminum. (CF hoods, trunk lids, spoilers, body kits, etc. Aluminum is popular for doors.)

[Killing Moon]

Looking that up right now.

[jcsaleen]

Carbon everything down to teh damn door handles!

[ThatRoundHeadedKid]

BMW 8-series, and all the luxury cars out there, sports sedans, Benz S, E, CL class, BMW 7-series E65, E66, E38, 5, new M6 and M5, and 645Ci, Acura RLs, Range Rovers, I dunno, but you kinda get my picture. Be wide-open about the car selection, make it very variant. Also, when classifying races, do races that use cars that are in the same classes, like do Sport Luxury sedan races, involving the BMW 7-Series, Audi A8, S8, Mercedes S-class, Maserati Quattroporte etc; or SUV races, or capability to do off-road trails, and set the cars controls like hill decent etc like, take the Arizona test trail, and do comparison races like the Range Rover vs. the Hummer H2, and the VW Toureg, and Mercedes Gelandewagen; or mid-sized comparison races, like the Infiniti G35 vs. the BMW 330i.

Free roaming is a huge plus, try to make the car physics as real as possible, and if you can, make cities or large areas available for free roam, like if you can do a big part of NYC available for free roam, while you can still travel to the meadowlands for racing, that would be absoultely amazing, somewhat like the Getaway for PS2 which was based on a 40 square km area of London where you can free roam, and it was designed to very specific details, making the landscape very accurate.

Also, make the characteristics of the different transmissions accurate, like, when accelerating, if an automatic on a car is smooth, then make it smooth in the game, not like a manual. Similar to Gran Turismo, for example, the Mercedes SL65 AMG is an automatic vehicle, but when in the game, it doesn't act like an automatic, it acts like the car has a clutch that the driver has to step on to change gear, it loses the momentum unlike a automatic which is rather smoother. This type of characteristics can be found in Enthusia.

If i have any more suggestions, i will post here.

[bluechevelle]

In all of these newer games the muscle car is left out, or if it is in there it is very poorly done. Add some Chevelle's,Cuda's, Corvette's,Nova's, Roadrunner's,Charger's,Challenger's and anything else you can think of. Don't do what Need for Speed has done and focus mainly on the visual aspect. Add things so you can mess witht the internals of the motor. Do that and I will buy it no matter what the price.

[-Josh-]

Originally Posted by bluechevelle

In all of these newer games the muscle car is left out, or if it is in there it is very poorly done. Add some Chevelle's,Cuda's, Corvette's,Nova's, Roadrunner's,Charger's,Challenger's and anything else you can think of. Don't do what Need for Speed has done and focus mainly on the visual aspect. Add things so you can mess witht the internals of the motor. Do that and I will buy it no matter what the price.

[Killing Moon]

Originally Posted by ThatRoundHeadedKid

BMW 8-series, and all the luxury cars out there, sports sedans, Benz S, E, CL class, BMW 7-series E65, E66, E38, 5, new M6 and M5, and 645Ci, Acura RLs, Range Rovers, I dunno, but you kinda get my picture. Be wide-open about the car selection, make it very variant. Also, when classifying races, do races that use cars that are in the same classes, like do Sport Luxury sedan races, involving the BMW 7-Series, Audi A8, S8, Mercedes S-class, Maserati Quattroporte etc; or SUV races, or capability to do off-road trails, and set the cars controls like hill decent etc like, take the Arizona test trail, and do comparison races like the Range Rover vs. the Hummer H2, and the VW Toureg, and Mercedes Gelandewagen; or mid-sized comparison races, like the Infiniti G35 vs. the BMW 330i.

Free roaming is a huge plus, try to make the car physics as real as possible, and if you can, make cities or large areas available for free roam, like if you can do a big part of NYC available for free roam, while you can still travel to the meadowlands for racing, that would be absoultely amazing, somewhat like the Getaway for PS2 which was based on a 40 square km area of London where you can free roam, and it was designed to very specific details, making the landscape very accurate.

Also, make the characteristics of the different transmissions accurate, like, when accelerating, if an automatic on a car is smooth, then make it smooth in the game, not like a manual. Similar to Gran Turismo, for example, the Mercedes SL65 AMG is an automatic vehicle, but when in the game, it doesn't act like an automatic, it acts like the car has a clutch that the driver has to step on to change gear, it loses the momentum unlike a automatic which is rather smoother. This type of characteristics can be found in Enthusia.

If i have any more suggestions, i will post here.

Well, I've though a lot about the free roaming aspect. I've decided to do it more along the lines of TXR, where you can drive around a highway and challenge opponents on the fly. One location will be a highway, within the daylight, night time and can lead to an open desert area. The second area can possibly be the Nur itself, as so many execute tests on the course and I can see challenges jumping off randomly. I've also added the Auto Bahn, but I know that this is going to be a b*tch to model for the artists!!

I wanted to stray off from the "big open city" type thing, as it's too Grand Theft Auto-like and promotes laziness in game design. Sometimes, creating barriers causes barriers to be broken and people think out of the box. It's weird, but game design is very psychological (though most of the industry doesn't even realize this).