smog pump super charger?

[blazee]

Originally Posted by BlazerLT

Gimmie a break, no offense, but why don't you do some research on low pressure smog pumps before you question what we say.

If this was that easy, don't you think everyone would be doing it?

Actually, I think I like it better that he doesn't research things before he posts. Some of his posts are pretty amusing.

I really like the one where he said that antifreeze is made of sugar, that's why it tastes so sweet and if you smell it, it will give you kidney stones.

[biv343]

Originally Posted by blazee

You guys are making this way to complicated. If you want to get a boost:

Pull the line going to your windshield washers off and tie it pointing into the throttlebody.

Fill your washer resevoir with racing fuel.

When you want a boost just hit your washer button.

There you go - now that's thinking. Poor mans nitrous.

I think water injection allows you to run the timing more advanced, and the water cools the cylinders to prevent detonation.

Either way, I'd never try either of those things on my daily driver vehicle. I'll stick with 10 less horsepower and have the engine last 5 more years.

[blazee]

Originally Posted by biv343

There you go - now that's thinking. Poor mans nitrous.

I think water injection allows you to run the timing more advanced, and the water cools the cylinders to prevent detonation.

Either way, I'd never try either of those things on my daily driver vehicle. I'll stick with 10 less horsepower and have the engine last 5 more years.

I was just joking, that's why I used the sarcastic eyes. If you tried that the PCM would lean it out when it saw the exhaust was rich. Also the racing fuel would just wash carbon out of the intake down into the cylinder and foul the plugs.

[Fireplug]

Water injection was used in WW2 on most Fighter Aircraft . I was called WEP Wartime Emergence power. It was used for short peroid of time.
Water injection systems are predominantly useful in forced induction (turbocharged or supercharged), internal combustion engines. Only in extreme cases such as very high compression ratios, very low octane fuel or too much ignition advance can it benefit a normally aspirated engine. The system has been around for a long time since it was already used in some World War II aircraft engines.

A water injection system works similarly to a fuel injection system only it injects water instead of fuel. Water injection is not to be confused with water spraying on the intercooler's surface, water spraying is much less efficient and far less sophisticated.
A turbocharger essentially compresses the air going into the engine in order to force more air than it would be possible using the atmospheric pressure. More air into the engine means automatically that more fuel has to be injected in order to maintain the appropriate stoechiometric value of the air/fuel ratio (around 14:1). More air and fuel into the engine leads to more power. However by compressing the inlet air the turbocharger also heats it. Higher air temperatures lead to thinner air and therefore an altered stoechiometric ratio which results to richer mixtures. Over-heated air intake temperatures can cause detonation.
Detonation, an effect also known as engine knock or pinging, occurs when the air/fuel mixture ignites prematurely or burns incorrectly. In normal engine operation the flame front travels from the spark plug across the cylinder in a predefined pattern. Peak chamber pressure occurs at around 12 degrees after TDC and the piston is pushed down the bore.

In some cases and for reasons such as a poor mixture, too high engine or inlet temperatures, too low octane fuels, too much ignition advance, too much turbo boost, etc. the primary flame front initiated by the spark plug may be followed by a second flame front. The chamber pressure then rises too rapidly for piston movement to relieve it. The pressure and temperature become so great that all the mixture in the chamber explodes in an uncontrolled manner. If the force of that explosion is severe some of the engine's moving parts (pistons, rods, valves, crank) will be destroyed.
Detonation, in any engine, should always be avoided by either lowering inlet temperatures, using higher octane fuel, retarding ignition (hence lowering engine output), lowering engine blow-by (a situation in which high crankcase pressure sends oil fumes back inside the combustion chamber), running the engine a little richer than at the stoechiometric ratio, lowering the compression ratio and/or boost pressure, ... .
Water injection is used to lower in-cylinder temperatures and burn the air/fuel mixture more efficiently thus helping avoid detonation.

In high pressure turbocharged engines the air/fuel mixture that enters the cylinders can, in some cases, explode prematurely (before the spark plug ignites) due to the extreme engine environment conditions. This situation is extremely destructive and results in severe engine damage (piston piercing). To avoid damaging the engine by detonation or pre-ignition phenomena, water is injected, along with fuel, in the combustion chambers in order to provide a water/air/fuel mixture which not only burns more efficiently and avoids detonation or pre-ignition but also provides additional inlet air cooling and, hence, denser air. The sole function of water injection is avoiding detonation.

There are mainly three variations of water injection systems. They are dependent of the location of the water injectors. The first technique consists of injecting water at the entrance of the intake manifold. The second injects water at the exit pipe of the intercooler. The third technique injects water at the entry of the intercooler and is only used in competition vehicles. In this latter variation most of the in-cylinder detonation prevention is done by injecting additional fuel which is then used as coolant (i.e. is not burned) and runs the engine above the stoechiometric ratio (i.e. rich).

How water injection works

The system is, usually, made up of 3 elements:

A water injector (similar to a fuel injector)

A high pressure pump (capable of attaining at least 3 to 4 bar pressure and sometimes even more)

A pressure sensor connected to the inlet manifold

An inlet air temperature sensor

Usually a water injection system is engaged when the inlet air temperature is exceeding a certain value, typically 40 degrees Celsius, and the engine is on boost. The most advanced systems add to the above electronic circuitry that provides 3D cartography similar to what is used in fuel injection systems. Cartography based devices take into account many more parameters such air/fuel ratio, throttle position and so on.

[TonyMazz]

Originally Posted by blazee

You guys are making this way to complicated. If you want to get a boost:

Pull the line going to your windshield washers off and tie it pointing into the throttlebody.

Fill your washer resevoir with racing fuel.

When you want a boost just hit your washer button.

[Rmbodie]

When I was in high school , I worked in a garage with an old air force mechanic . We used a fuel injector and pump to spray a high pressure MIST into the plenum before the MAS . The moisture would cool the air going in , thus making it denser. More air going into the cylinder. Higher compression (by a small amount) . Have ever noticed that your engine feels stronger when driving in the rain ? Its not just that the wet pavement is slicker , but the wet/cool air is denser too. Thats one reason why cars with turbos now have intercoolers too. At that age I was sckeptical too , But I had a trigger switch mounted to the gear shifter (like a nitrous button) on a fourbanger and I could tell a difference while accellerating and pushing it. The only problem was that the fuel pump I used rusted up on the inside and quit working. Rob

[metallica21156]

i know how the system supposed to work but how do you tell when you've got the right mixture? thats the only thing i haven't been able to find out.

[biv343]

Originally Posted by blazee

I was just joking, that's why I used the sarcastic eyes. If you tried that the PCM would lean it out when it saw the exhaust was rich. Also the racing fuel would just wash carbon out of the intake down into the cylinder and foul the plugs.

I realized you were joking - unfortunately I didn't pass my own sarcasm along in the reply. But if you used the washer fluid tank racing gas injection along with 12 smog pumps with underdrive pulleys, some big spark plug wires and sacrificed a chicken.....

[blazee]

Originally Posted by biv343

I realized you were joking - unfortunately I didn't pass my own sarcasm along in the reply. But if you used the washer fluid tank racing gas injection along with 12 smog pumps with underdrive pulleys, some big spark plug wires and sacrificed a chicken.....

....bottle rockets in the tailpipe.

Oh, and it helps to get rid of some weight, too. Pull out all the seats and sit on a bucket, that should get rid of a least 75lbs.
Let 25lbs of air out of each tire, including the spare there goes another 125lbs.

[Sen Sen]

Originally Posted by blazee

....bottle rockets in the tailpipe.

Oh, and it helps to get rid of some weight, too. Pull out all the seats and sit on a bucket, that should get rid of a least 75lbs.
Let 25lbs of air out of each tire, including the spare there goes another 125lbs.

LMAO

[JC327]

Originally Posted by blazee

You guys are making this way to complicated. If you want to get a boost:

Pull the line going to your windshield washers off and tie it pointing into the throttlebody.

Fill your washer resevoir with racing fuel.

When you want a boost just hit your washer button.

Now that cracked me up...

[Schrade]

Originally Posted by blazee

Actually, I think I like it better that he doesn't research things before he posts. Some of his posts are pretty amusing.

I really like the one where he said that antifreeze is made of sugar, that's why it tastes so sweet and if you smell it, it will give you kidney stones.

Antifreeze = ethylene glycol!
Ethylene = ethane with carbon/carbon double bond, hence suffix '-ene'
ethylene, methylene, propylene, etc., etc.
Glycol = Glycogen (glucose, as in sugar), derivative, with a hydroxide ion, making an alcoh-ol/sugar - 'glyc - ol'.

I know you don't know organic chemistry. But I'm sure you know chilton's, and hayne's. I'm takin' for granted you know how to read, and if you've noticed, they both say don't allow antifreeze to puddle where dogs and cats can be drawn to the sweet smell.
And as far as the kidney stones from inhalin' antifreeze? Tell some soldiers who've driven hummers with leakin' coolant that you don't get kidney stones from it.
I have to keep reminding myself... It's better to have to put up with ignorance, that to be ignorant (I think).

Of course, maybe I'd better humble myself a little... My doctoral dissertation WAS rejected (on a technicality).

[metallica21156]

can anybody tell me how to get the mixture right?

[blazee]

Originally Posted by cbec1999

Antifreeze = ethylene glycol!

No.... antifreeze = Ethylene Glycol, Methanol, Ethanol, Isopropyl Alcohol, or Propylene Glycol

Antifreeze-
substance added to a solvent to lower its freezing point. The solution formed is called an antifreeze mixture. Antifreeze is typically added to water in the cooling system of an internal-combustion engine so that it may be cooled below the freezing point of pure water (32°F or 0°C) without freezing. Any substance that dissolves will cause freezing-point depression; a desirable antifreeze also should not corrode metal parts, attack rubber, become viscous at low temperatures, or evaporate readily at the ordinary engine operating temperature. It should be chemically stable, a good conductor of heat, and a poor conductor of electricity. Ethylene Glycol is the most widely used automotive cooling-system antifreeze, although methanol, ethanol, isopropyl alcohol, and propylene glycol are also used. Substances that inhibit corrosion are usually added; antifoaming agents are sometimes added as well. In automotive windshield-washer fluids, an alcohol (e.g., methanol) is usually added to keep the mixture from freezing; it also acts as a solvent to help clean the glass. The brine used in some commercial refrigeration systems is an antifreeze mixture; it is typically a water solution of calcium chloride or propylene glycol.

Originally Posted by cbec1999

Ethylene = ethane with carbon/carbon double bond, hence suffix '-ene' ethylene, methylene, propylene, etc., etc.

Ethylene and ethene are the same thing, they both have the double bond.

Ethylene-
or ethene , H 2 C=CH 2 , a gaseous unsaturated hydrocarbon. It is the simplest alkene . Ethylene is colorless, has a faint odor, and has a slightly sweet taste; it melts at -169.4°C and boils at -103.8°C. Because of the presence of the double bond in its molecule, ethylene is very reactive. It burns in air with a luminous flame and forms explosive mixtures with pure oxygen. It combines directly with the halogens, e.g., with chlorine to form 1,2-dichloroethane. With hydrogen it forms ethane. Ethylene may be prepared by the dehydration of ethanol with sulfuric acid at about 180°C. It is prepared commercially from natural gas and petroleum, e.g., by cracking and fractional distillation. Ethylene has many uses. It is important in the synthesis of many chemicals. It is used in making polyethylene and saran, in the manufacture of ethanol and ethylene oxide, and as an anesthetic. Ethylene was called olefiant gas by early chemists.

Originally Posted by cbec1999

Glycol = Glycogen (glucose, as in sugar), derivative, with a hydroxide ion, making an alcoh-ol/sugar - 'glyc - ol'.

Nope. Glycerol is derived from Glycogen, not Glycol.

Glycol-
(glī´kōl) , dihydric alcohol in which the two hydroxyl groups are bonded to different carbon atoms; the general formula for a glycol is (CH 2 ) n (OH) 2 . The most important glycol is the simplest, ethylene glycol, or 1,2-ethanediol, CH 2 OHCH 2 OH, a slightly sweet-tasting, somewhat viscous liquid that is miscible with water. Because of its low volatility (b.p. 197°C) and low corrosive activity, it is widely used in mixtures of automobile antifreeze . Ethylene glycol can be esterified to form polyesters, e.g., Dacron , and can be nitrated to form an explosive used in mining. It is prepared commercially by oxidation of ethylene at high temperature over a silver oxide catalyst, followed by acid-catalyzed hydrolysis of the ethylene oxide that is formed. Cellosolves (e.g., methyl cellosolve, CH 3 OCH 2 CH 2 OH) are monoether derivatives of ethylene glycol. They are excellent solvents, having solvent properties of both ethers and alcohols; they have other uses as well. Polyethylene glycol (PEG) is used to thicken shampoo and cosmetics. It can also be attached to other molecules via a process called pegylation. When pegylated to medicinal drugs, it can alter their distribution in the body, metabolism, and excretion. Such alteration can lead to improved dosing intervals and may also have beneficial effects on safety and efficacy. Pegylation can also mask certain drugs, such as interferon, from the immune system, preventing their rejection.

Glycogen-
(glī´kejen) , starchlike polysaccharide that is found in the liver and muscles of humans and the higher animals and in the cells of the lower animals. Chemically it is a highly branched condensation polymer of glucose ; it is readily hydrolyzed to glucose. Glycogen is formed by the liver from glucose in the bloodstream and is stored in the liver; conversion of glucose to glycogen (glycogenesis) and hydrolysis of glycogen to glucose (glycogenolysis) together are the usual mechanism for maintenance of normal levels of blood sugar. Glycogen is also produced by and stored in muscle cells; during short periods of strenuous activity, energy is released in the muscles by direct conversion of glycogen to lactic acid. During normal activity, energy is released by metabolic oxidation of glucose to lactic acid.

Glycerol-
glycerin, glycerine, or 1,2,3-propanetriol , CH 2 OHCHOHCH 2 OH, colorless, odorless, sweet-tasting, syrupy liquid. Glycerol is a trihydric alcohol . It melts at 17.8°C, boils with decomposition at 290°C, and is miscible with water and ethanol. It is hygroscopic; i.e., it absorbs water from the air; this property makes it valuable as a moistener in cosmetics. Glycerol is present in the form of its esters (glycerides) in all animal and vegetable fats and oils. It is obtained commercially as a byproduct when fats and oils are hydrolyzed to yield fatty acids or their metal salts (soaps). Glycerol is also synthesized on a commercial scale from propylene (obtained by cracking petroleum), since supplies of natural glycerol are inadequate. Glycerol can also be obtained during the fermentation of sugars if sodium bisulfite is added with the yeast. Glycerol is widely used as a solvent; as a sweetener; in the manufacture of dynamite, cosmetics, liquid soaps, candy, liqueurs, inks, and lubricants;to keep fabrics pliable; as a component of antifreeze mixtures; as a source of nutrients for fermentation cultures in the production of antibiotics ; and in medicine. It has many other uses as well.

Originally Posted by cbec1999

I know you don't know organic chemistry. But I'm sure you know chilton's, and hayne's. I'm takin' for granted you know how to read, and if you've noticed, they both say don't allow antifreeze to puddle where dogs and cats can be drawn to the sweet smell.

I can see you don't know organic chemistry either. People don't have to read a book to know that ethylene glycol is hazardous. I have used it for years to help control stray animals. Although similar, the sweet smell and taste of ethylene glycol doesn't come from sugar.

Propylene glycol is not hazardous. It is made from glycerol, though. It isn't made from glycerol derived from Glycogen, though. Propylene Glycol is a glycol made from synthetic glycerol created from Propylene. I guess you could consider this to be made for sugar even though it is an alcohol derived from an artificial glucose type of sugar. BUT your original post implied antifreeze to be made from normal sugar such as sucrose which is a combination of glucose and fructose. If we are just using glucose as being considered "made from sugar", then we can say that basically everything is "made of sugar"...everything that is or once was living. Anything with living cells contains glucose because it is how cells get the energy for cellular respriation. We know that this isn't what you meant though, because you are organic chemistry expert not a biologist.

Originally Posted by cbec1999

And as far as the kidney stones from inhalin' antifreeze? Tell some soldiers who've driven hummers with leakin' coolant that you don't get kidney stones from it.

From http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/tfacts96.html

"Exposure to large amounts of ethylene glycol can damage the kidneys, heart, and nervous system. Propylene glycol is generally regarded as safe for use in food.......
........What happens to ethylene glycol and propylene glycol when they enter the environment?

• Neither compound is likely to exist in large amounts in air.
• About half of the compounds that enter the air will break down in 24-50 hours.
• Both compounds break down within several days to a week in water and soil. "

I would agree that sitting in the vapors for a long time could damage the kidneys, it won't cause kidney stones. Kidney stones are caused by substances in piss sticking together. Any of the silicates small enough to become airborn would be deposited in the lungs, not your piss. The soldiers' kidney stones are more than likely caused from dehydration and minerals in the drinking water.

Originally Posted by cbec1999

I have to keep reminding myself... It's better to have to put up with ignorance, that to be ignorant (I think).

Of course, maybe I'd better humble myself a little... My doctoral dissertation WAS rejected (on a technicality).

[Schrade]

Nice definitions! I can tell you got them right out of memory