I don't want to hear anyone complaining about GM anymore.

[BlenderWizard]

I'll quietly bow out of this discussion now

[twomorestrokes]

Personally I prefer the "feel" of the full size GM truck as well as the looks and performance, that is why I chose them. However, I was just having this discussion with a co-worker this morning, as he has just gotten his Silhouette back from the dealer I used to work for after another head gasket replacement. Every make and model can have it's share of troubles, but what bothers me is that the problems GM has, they have the SAME problems year after year. And as they get more technologically advanced, so do the reocurring, common problems. Longtime GM customers are just getting fed up with having to take it. It gets to the point that when you are supposed to be enjoying driving your nice late model truck, you are actually spending time worrying whether the new noise you are hearing or the new clunk you are feeling is going to strand you before you get to a spot to take a look at it.

As far as piston slap noise, it's true that any vehicle is capable of having it, but I have never seen such an across-the-board issue with it as GM has with their trucks and many of their V6 car engines for many many years. Our '94 Cutlass could be heard coming from quite a ways away until warmed up. I went from being a Ford tech to a GM service writer and spent close to 20 years in the GM dealership. I realize it's not a longevity problem, but still, when I pull out of my work parking lot at 5:00 I'm embarassed to use the gas pedal due to the slapping noise from under the hood of my very cool looking HD pickup. The mix of piston slap noise and exhaust leaking from the broken manifold bolts go away quickly when warmed but still really cheapen the feel of this otherwise very sturdy vehicle.

Ok, I'll bow out now also. Sorry for ranting and raving, but now I'm experiencing first hand everything that I've been dealing with customers with for a long time.

[TexasF355F1]

Originally Posted by twomorestrokes

Personally I prefer the "feel" of the full size GM truck as well as the looks and performance, that is why I chose them. However, I was just having this discussion with a co-worker this morning, as he has just gotten his Silhouette back from the dealer I used to work for after another head gasket replacement. Every make and model can have it's share of troubles, but what bothers me is that the problems GM has, they have the SAME problems year after year. And as they get more technologically advanced, so do the reocurring, common problems. Longtime GM customers are just getting fed up with having to take it. It gets to the point that when you are supposed to be enjoying driving your nice late model truck, you are actually spending time worrying whether the new noise you are hearing or the new clunk you are feeling is going to strand you before you get to a spot to take a look at it.

As far as piston slap noise, it's true that any vehicle is capable of having it, but I have never seen such an across-the-board issue with it as GM has with their trucks and many of their V6 car engines for many many years. Our '94 Cutlass could be heard coming from quite a ways away until warmed up. I went from being a Ford tech to a GM service writer and spent close to 20 years in the GM dealership. I realize it's not a longevity problem, but still, when I pull out of my work parking lot at 5:00 I'm embarassed to use the gas pedal due to the slapping noise from under the hood of my very cool looking HD pickup. The mix of piston slap noise and exhaust leaking from the broken manifold bolts go away quickly when warmed but still really cheapen the feel of this otherwise very sturdy vehicle.

Ok, I'll bow out now also. Sorry for ranting and raving, but now I'm experiencing first hand everything that I've been dealing with customers with for a long time.

I think you summed it up quite well for all of us.

[BlenderWizard]

Originally Posted by twomorestrokes

Personally I prefer the "feel" of the full size GM truck as well as the looks and performance, that is why I chose them. However, I was just having this discussion with a co-worker this morning, as he has just gotten his Silhouette back from the dealer I used to work for after another head gasket replacement. Every make and model can have it's share of troubles, but what bothers me is that the problems GM has, they have the SAME problems year after year. And as they get more technologically advanced, so do the reocurring, common problems. Longtime GM customers are just getting fed up with having to take it. It gets to the point that when you are supposed to be enjoying driving your nice late model truck, you are actually spending time worrying whether the new noise you are hearing or the new clunk you are feeling is going to strand you before you get to a spot to take a look at it.

As far as piston slap noise, it's true that any vehicle is capable of having it, but I have never seen such an across-the-board issue with it as GM has with their trucks and many of their V6 car engines for many many years. Our '94 Cutlass could be heard coming from quite a ways away until warmed up. I went from being a Ford tech to a GM service writer and spent close to 20 years in the GM dealership. I realize it's not a longevity problem, but still, when I pull out of my work parking lot at 5:00 I'm embarassed to use the gas pedal due to the slapping noise from under the hood of my very cool looking HD pickup. The mix of piston slap noise and exhaust leaking from the broken manifold bolts go away quickly when warmed but still really cheapen the feel of this otherwise very sturdy vehicle.

Ok, I'll bow out now also. Sorry for ranting and raving, but now I'm experiencing first hand everything that I've been dealing with customers with for a long time.

Ok, I'm back. I agree with this post. I do not know about how common piston slap is, just that all of my other cars have had the problem.

[twomorestrokes]

Originally Posted by BlenderWizard

Ok, I'm back. I agree with this post. I do not know about how common piston slap is, just that all of my other cars have had the problem.

At least the pic of Dubya flipping me the bird makes me forget about noisey trucks. Cracks me up every time I see it!

[rsad74]

Originally Posted by kenny-1907

. If i have a problem with something and they are willing to own up to it and say it is their design fault and they will repair it at no charge to me THAT is what makes a good company, not worrying about what it will cost to fix. If a company is willing to take a bit of a loss to make a customer satisfied, that is a company that is going to get a future referal of new customers from me.

I couldn't agree more......and I understand the point that Moose brought up about the problem being so large that it would bandrupt GM if they were to admit that the problem is a design flaw. ALL companies should do more product testing and evaluation before putting anything into mass production, but that would cut deeply into their bottom line.....it would also eliminate a lot of recalls and dealer (warranty) repairs. Any automotive company will tell you that the biggest reason that faulty products get out to the public is the fact that the customer wants the "newer, better, improved" product NOW!!!! We pay for it......sometimes several times over. I can happily say that I haven't had any piston-slap. I hope that I don't develop it later on. But I have had my share of other problems with my truck...But I won't get into that right now.

It's like a guy once told me,.........When you're polishing a turd, it doesn't matter how good of a job you do, it's still a turd.

[BlenderWizard]

Originally Posted by rsad74

I couldn't agree more......and I understand the point that Moose brought up about the problem being so large that it would bandrupt GM if they were to admit that the problem is a design flaw. ALL companies should do more product testing and evaluation before putting anything into mass production, but that would cut deeply into their bottom line.....it would also eliminate a lot of recalls and dealer (warranty) repairs. Any automotive company will tell you that the biggest reason that faulty products get out to the public is the fact that the customer wants the "newer, better, improved" product NOW!!!! We pay for it......sometimes several times over. I can happily say that I haven't had any piston-slap. I hope that I don't develop it later on. But I have had my share of other problems with my truck...But I won't get into that right now.

It's like a guy once told me,.........When you're polishing a turd, it doesn't matter how good of a job you do, it's still a turd.

I've always referred to people who fix up old Fords as "turd polishers"

[BlenderWizard]

Originally Posted by rsad74

ALL companies should do more product testing and evaluation before putting anything into mass production, but that would cut deeply into their bottom line.....it would also eliminate a lot of recalls and dealer (warranty) repairs.

The Germans refer to this as gründlich; it means thorough. The Germans do much, much more R&D before bringing a product to market, or they used to, anyway. I read something that the higer ups at Mercedes got on to their engineers a while back for overloading their cars with electrical crap. They told them to quit putting it in the cars just because they can, and make sure it works first. Instead of extensive testing, Americans tend to come up with plans that appear to work, build it and then fix whatever is wrong with it. This was a lesson that my German professor in college gave us one day. He went on to say that one system wasn't really any better than the ather because they both have pretty serious drawbacks.

[84fiero123]

blame the kids just out of school for all the tech shit. they have to put evrything new under the sun the every new car or truck they make, i watch a show on the tube the other day. they had to take 2 old trucks, 64 fords and get them ready to drag race, the guy haded the kid a 4 barrel carb to put on the intake and the kid looked at it ib amzement, he said " whats this?" sorry guys i couldn't belive it are we now that depentant on technology? that yoiu dont know anything else? does anyone know what duel quads are or a six pack? god forbid we forget our past, or we will be doomed to make everything so tech dependent that unless you are an enginer you won't be able to work on them.
in the 60's 327's ran over 300 hp with a carb. and no computer. why do we need to remake something that works? engines were made in the usa not mexico. profit has driven corporate america to the point that it doesn't matter if we make anything here as long as the co. makes huge profits. or if we can even aford to buy the car or truck, as long as the co. is paying dividens.
sorry had to vent!

[BlenderWizard]

I think all of the computer controls on the engines are to overcome all of the emissions crap that choked them all down. 1970 was the high point for horsepower because the EPA had not interfered yet. It was all downhill after that, and we're just now getting back to a ~1967 level of horsepower and torque

[bootism]

well i see people talking see toyota is recalling stuff but this what they should do. gm on the other hand is not. the only recalls they do are cheap fix recalls. example intake gaskets on the old body style truck there is a problem but i never got my recall notice nor did anyone i know who have this truck. bottom line is these car companies should warranty the car or truck as long as you have payments come on think about 7 to 8 years of payments to afford it. all these car companies suck. think about this people are these car any better from ten years ago no the price went up but they have cheaper labor now thanks to NAFTA but we don't see it. do we get any mileage no i've read these post that what people claim there is no way the get this kind of mileage . bottom line folks is this we should all complain about the junk being built and start giving the customer what they want fuel mileage, dependable cars, fair price, a real warranty, and finally if i buy a new car or truck damn it i should get any color i want. not your half a dozen butt ugly colors.

[twomorestrokes]

Problem is that in the past GM has operated under the idea that if you don't like it, too bad 'cause we're GM! Now they are in such imediate turmoil that it makes me wonder what we're going to do if they go belly-up.

Don't laugh...it could happen unless things change drastically.

[BlenderWizard]

Originally Posted by twomorestrokes

Problem is that in the past GM has operated under the idea that if you don't like it, too bad 'cause we're GM! Now they are in such imediate turmoil that it makes me wonder what we're going to do if they go belly-up.

Don't laugh...it could happen unless things change drastically.

Doubtful... Remember Chrysler or Lee Iacoca in the 80's? The government bailed them out. I think the same would happen here if GM got in that bad of trouble. The government couldn't allow GM to go out of business, because our economy and way of life would collapse.

As far as people thinking GM is going to go bankrupt; I wouldn't worry about that. GM is huge beyond the scope of most people's minds. Their U.S. auto manufacturing is just the tip of the company's iceberg.

AND as far as MPG goes, the EPA recently got onto most auto manufacturers for overstating the gas mileage. The window sticker that has the MPG on a car has a number supplied by the EPA from tests in near laboratory conditions that are not reproducible by common drivers

[twomorestrokes]

Originally Posted by BlenderWizard

As far as people thinking GM is going to go bankrupt; I wouldn't worry about that.

That's the main problem...nobody including them has ever worried about it. Now they are in dire need of extreme and imediate measures, where with a little planning and foresight, they could have been gearing up for this before it got to this point. I keep watching world know experts talk about how this is a real possibility unless the unions are ready to talk about extreme changes to the way they go about doing things.

Anyway, this doesn't have much to do with Silverados, I just worry about them. I'm from Lansing, MI, a big GM town and Oldsmobile center, and they are currently closing lots of operations down and pulling out. Olds is already gone, where my Dad put in all of his time in Engineering.

[bootism]

Originally Posted by BlenderWizard

Doubtful... Remember Chrysler or Lee Iacoca in the 80's? The government bailed them out. I think the same would happen here if GM got in that bad of trouble. The government couldn't allow GM to go out of business, because our economy and way of life would collapse.

As far as people thinking GM is going to go bankrupt; I wouldn't worry about that. GM is huge beyond the scope of most people's minds. Their U.S. auto manufacturing is just the tip of the company's iceberg.

AND as far as MPG goes, the EPA recently got onto most auto manufacturers for overstating the gas mileage. The window sticker that has the MPG on a car has a number supplied by the EPA from tests in near laboratory conditions that are not reproducible by common drivers

well first off i agree with you that the me and you which we are the government and all the other tax payers bail chrysler out your right but when it come to gm basically to big to file bankruptcy that where you need to reconsider that can happen and will happen if things don't change. Now the question i have for you is why should i bail gm out they never bail me out. they need to think about building a good car and keep production going on the things that they have got figured out example the buick 3.8 great motor . wait they want to stop production because they says it "old technology" not enough parts and rotating mass so people have to go back to gm and order more parts. the problem is to many stupid people running the show there. another example the last rear wheel drive impala stop production again stupid
and replace it with that joke the new impala get real.

I have a chevy truck and came from 3 generation of gm workers I got pissed one day and bought a new ranger 3 1/2 good years later and 200,000 miles i sold because i thought i needed a full size i was looking for a f150 longbed but in a gm town impossible so i bought the chevy and many problems later i have not been happy with but see I'm trying to keep a open mind to things but gm just like ford chrysler and all the rest nobody is to big to file bankruptcy they all are stupid if you don't believe me just check out the big bonus that the big wigs get. that the start of the trouble right there.

and when it comes to the economy and way of life look i live in mid michigan check out the unemployment here and come here and check out the way of life in flint about 330 in the morning time for a change this what need to happen maybe just maybe someone will wake up and build something good.