The Minutemen return...

[carrrnuttt]

Originally Posted by sivic02

Hey if people are willing to pay the money then thats their thing. Is the money coming out of your pocket? Then why do you care what people do with their own money?

You are truly challenged. You speak of benefits of cheap labor. Do you really think that the shady business owners willing to cheat the law, in order to keep more profits, give back the extra money they earn to the economy?

Originally Posted by sivic02

Which based on the ammount of terrorist attacks we have here each and every day that is such a concern! Do you really think that if we tighten up our boarders that "terrorists" will say "Wait a second, we cant get in through mexico....lets just give up and go home"

Again. Dumbass assumptions, and half-baked assessments.

Let's start with this: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=24987

And I'll emphasize with this: http://www.boston.com/news/local/mas...eat_to_boston/

The attacks are not happening, because the Feds are doing their jobs, chasing them down, or making them lay-low.

But see, what you're not understanding is...you are merely increasing the workload on our already-stretched agencies, when by simply lessening their entrances into our country, could have saved all the man-hours wasted in chasing terrorists, when THEY ARE ALREADY HERE.

As for attacks, you have any idea how long 9-11 was planned for? What are you expecting, an attack every month? Will that make you support the Minutemen then?

[sivic02]

Do I think they will spend the money they keep? Yes, is that putting money back into the economy? Yes.

The mexican boarder has nothing to do with terrorism, as taranaki said, the mexico boarder is 2000 miles, the rest of our borders are around....100,000 miles. Yep tightening up that boarder is going to solve every worldly problem!

What will it take for me to support this group? God I love this question! How about every person who supports not helping out your fellow man who is just looking for work (in this case the minutemen) shoots themselves in the head or the foot (their choice), then I will support them.

[taranaki]

Originally Posted by carrrnuttt

Again. Dumbass assumptions, and half-baked assessments.

Almost on a par with your assertion that just because an Arab is attempting to enter America illegally, he's a terrorist.

[carrrnuttt]

Originally Posted by taranaki

Almost on a par with your assertion that just because an Arab is attempting to enter America illegally, he's a terrorist.

WTF are you talking about? I performed a CTRL+F search on my posts, and I didn't find the word "arab" anywhere. I did find "terrorists", however. If you look at one of my links, it shows that three out of 5 terrorists that came through the Mexican border, were chinese, and the rest were Iraqi, which isn't an Arab, as they usually come from K.S.A., as in Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.

Unlike most of the children you uselessly argue against in here on a regular basis, I do know the distinction between people, and the distinction between a group that I feel threatens my country, and a nationality.

Before you lift a finger to reply to me again, please refrain from putting words where they weren't, or were never intended to be, in the first place.

[fredjacksonsan]

I think it's a good idea, if for nothing else than getting the government moving, as pointed out in carrrnuttt's articles.

I have no issue with people coming into the country legally; however illegal entry is another thing. I certainly don't begrudge anyone the opportunity to better their life and feed their families; but there are rules to be followed when you go to a different country.

Naki, being in an island nation I think leaves you in the position of misunderstanding the situation; it isn't possible for people to just walk to the area you live in and start working. But imagine that 3 cruise ships per day docked in Wellington harbor, and started unloading people that were there to work, illegally. I think you'd want something done.

Originally Posted by SIVIC02

Do I think they will spend the money they keep? Yes, is that putting money back into the economy? Yes.

But the point you're missing is that these people, coyotes, are making $1.2 Million per year, from their illegal activities, and paying no taxes on that income. They're no better than any other criminal that's profiting from illegal activities.

Originally Posted by SIVIC02

The mexican boarder has nothing to do with terrorism, as taranaki said, the mexico boarder is 2000 miles, the rest of our borders are around....100,000 miles. Yep tightening up that boarder is going to solve every worldly problem!

One point not made is that the US is far from most other countries by sea. As far as terrorists are concerned, we can probably discount the Alaskan coast. The east and west coasts aren't really reachable by your average terrorist by boat. The Canadian border, though porous, isn't (yet) the immigration nightmare that the US/Mexico border is. So where do you put your efforts? Problem areas. The 2000 mile border with Mexico is porous, has a huge influx of illegals, and I have to agree that it's a strong possibility that terrorists will attempt to use that border to enter the country to do their dirty work.

Originally Posted by SIVIC02

What will it take for me to support this group? God I love this question! How about every person who supports not helping out your fellow man who is just looking for work (in this case the minutemen) shoots themselves in the head or the foot (their choice), then I will support them.

That's just ignorant.

And "boarder" refers to someone that is paying rent to live in someone else's house.

Of course people will be worried about the "cowboys" having a field day and starting to shoot people coming across. But as I stated earlier, they have spurred the government to do something about the situation, something that wasn't done before.

Sivic, did you actually read the articles that carrrnuttt posted? Bush signed a law that said he'd put 2000 new border patrolmen on duty. His budget for '06 allowed for less than 300. Now as a direct result of these citizens, he is making good on the legislation that he signed.

If the US government can't follow its own rules, then it is up to citizens like the Minutemen to do something about it.

[Twitch1]

Carrrnuttt- I see once again the usual suspect in a faraway land has passed judgement on us. Boy I feel bad, huh? But to those in other states that barely hear about the coyotes and major influx of undocumenteds, they have no concept of the daily impact on southern Arizona. Beyond the crime of the smugglers and their obscene profits, they leave bands of people to die in the heat of summer on a regular basis after exploiting theie meager finances. The crime cause by the passing through intruders is not to be dismissed either as burglary, theft and other sundry offenses have been a sore spot for southern Arizona for a long time. As your brother across the river I certainly understand.

[fredjacksonsan]

You're right Twitch, there is the matter of the (hundreds?thousands?) number of illegals that are killed or abandoned each year; it may actually be a humanitarian act that the minutemen are involved in.

[YogsVR4]

We've needed serious immigration reform for a long time now. My brother-in-law has been married for almost three years now and his wife still isn't eligible to be a citizen. Its ridiculous that its so difficult to come to this country legally and follow the rules and have it take so long. Its even more ridiculous to let people come here illegally and get any type of amnesty for their illegal activities. They first need to streamline the process so those that want to come here can. At the same time, beefed up security along the boarders to stem the tide of people breaking the law.

[taranaki]

Originally Posted by Twitch1

Carrrnuttt- I see once again the usual suspect in a faraway land has passed judgement on us. Boy I feel bad, huh? .

Grow up,fool.

[taranaki]

Originally Posted by carrrnuttt

WTF are you talking about? I performed a CTRL+F search on my posts, and I didn't find the word "arab" anywhere. I did find "terrorists", however. If you look at one of my links, it shows that three out of 5 terrorists that came through the Mexican border, were chinese, and the rest were Iraqi, which isn't an Arab, as they usually come from K.S.A., as in Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.

Unlike most of the children you uselessly argue against in here on a regular basis, I do know the distinction between people, and the distinction between a group that I feel threatens my country, and a nationality.

Before you lift a finger to reply to me again, please refrain from putting words where they weren't, or were never intended to be, in the first place.

Headline of the first link that you posted

'Arab terrorists'
crossing border

the story goes on to talk about 'potential'terrorists.

In the second link an unsubstantiated report claims that 5 ['terrorists' blah blah blah.......KEY WORD -UNSUBSTANTIATED

Before you try to lay into me again carrrnuttt, I suggest you learn to read the press exactly aqs it is written instead of skimming it and filtrering only that which applies to your beliefs.You put the links in your post that made fanciful claims about 'Arab terrorists', when there is clearly no evidence to back the suggestions.Trying to claim that you never said it is disingenuous.If you are going to table weak links as part of your argument ,at least have the spine to back them up when you get called out on them.


The terrorists have beaten the simpletons of the American right.3 1/2 years on from 9/11,your president is still urging you to fight non-existent enemies. There's no evidence to suuggest that one single terrorist ever crossed the Mexican border, or intends to.It's a beat-up, and a lame one at that.

[carrrnuttt]

Originally Posted by taranaki

Headline of the first link that you posted

'Arab terrorists'
crossing border

the story goes on to talk about 'potential'terrorists.

In the second link an unsubstantiated report claims that 5 ['terrorists' blah blah blah.......KEY WORD -UNSUBSTANTIATED

Before you try to lay into me again carrrnuttt, I suggest you learn to read the press exactly aqs it is written instead of skimming it and filtrering only that which applies to your beliefs.You put the links in your post that made fanciful claims about 'Arab terrorists', when there is clearly no evidence to back the suggestions.Trying to claim that you never said it is disingenuous.If you are going to table weak links as part of your argument ,at least have the spine to back them up when you get called out on them.


The terrorists have beaten the simpletons of the American right.3 1/2 years on from 9/11,your president is still urging you to fight non-existent enemies. There's no evidence to suuggest that one single terrorist ever crossed the Mexican border, or intends to.It's a beat-up, and a lame one at that.

Wow. You are a simpleton. I'd use harsher words, but your sensitive behind will get uppity about it, and I plan on categorizing you from here on end, as one of the "hapless children" that I feel it is useless to argue against - regardless of your age. You can rail all you want after this, but I'm too busy to deal with your single-mindedness.

• I posted what I posted, in opposition of Bush's policies regarding border control. Yet, you talk about the President "urging" me on.

• I posted a national news report, regarding terrorists that did get through. Yet you talk about "There's no evidence to suuggest that one single terrorist ever crossed the Mexican border, or intends to".

• "Arab" was mentioned in one of the articles I posted, and I am now a bigot that thinks all arabs are terrorists. BTW, I did read the article, and I can understand where the title came from:

Arabs have been reported crossing the Arizona border for an unknown period. Border rancher George Morgan encounters thousands of illegals crossing his ranch on a well-used trail. He relates a holiday event: "It was Thanksgiving 1998, and I stepped outside my house and there were over a hundred 'crossers' in my yard. Damnedest bunch of illegals I ever saw. All of them were wearing black pants, white shirts and string ties. Maybe they were hoping to blend in," he chuckled. "They took off, I called the Border Patrol, and a while later, an agent, Dan Green, let me know that they had caught them. He said that they were all Iranians."

According to Border Patrol spokesperson Rob Daniels, "Ten Egyptians were arrested recently near Douglas, Arizona. Each had paid $7,000 to be brought from Guatemala into Mexico and then across the border."

According to the San Diego Union-Tribune, hours after the 9-11 attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, an anonymous caller led Mexican immigration agents to 41 undocumented Iraqis waiting to cross into the United States.

The Associated Press reported that Mexican immigration police detained 13 citizens of Yemen on Sept. 24, 2001, who were reportedly waiting to cross the border into Arizona. The Yemenis were arrested Sunday in Agua Prieta, across the border from Douglas. Luis Teran Balaguer, assistant head of immigration in the northern state of Sonora, said, "The evidence indicates that they have nothing to do with terrorist activities."

Oh, did YOU notice that the words 'Arab terrorists' were in quotation marks? Did that NOT tell you that they were quoting the gist of reports that THEY were hearing? Now tell, me HOW THE HELL DID THAT TRANSLATE INTO ME ACCUSING EVERY ARAB CRSSING THE BORDER AS TERRORISTS? Take a look at the last paragraph I quoted from the article:

The Yemenis were arrested Sunday in Agua Prieta, across the border from Douglas. Luis Teran Balaguer, assistant head of immigration in the northern state of Sonora, said, "The evidence indicates that they have nothing to do with terrorist activities."

You talk about unsubstantiated, but here you are, ranting about an issue you have NO fucking clue about, considering the issue is LOCAL news, to me. I know where the migrants line-up, in the mornings, to wait to get picked-up for cheap construction, or landscaping jobs, while dilligent citizens are at the local job-centers, waiting - disadvantaged by the fact that they went through paperwork to have to pay tax, and by law, employers have to pay half of their Social Security, and Medicare - which is an issue unto itself.

You talk about arrogant Americans. Well...how arrogant are YOU, assuming that you have ANY idea, of what is going on. You know how many of these migrants died in the desert from bandits, and the elements, because Bush, and Fox give them false hopes of "amnesty", and "work programs"?

I might not agree with all of the Minutemen's motivations, but I sure am hoping they'd get the results I am hoping for.

How about you post some local news of yours instead, and I'll let you be in there, k?

[sivic02]

AHHH SON OF A BITCH! I tried to post a long post, little did I know my wireless internet decided to disconnect and I lost it...damnit... heres the cliff notes...

Originally Posted by carrrnuttt

I am now a bigot that thinks all arabs are terrorists.

Hey you said it not me! Im kidding, I saw the shot, had to take it.

Just because someone isnt from this country doesnt mean they cant have an opinion about whats going on in this country. If anything we should be listening to those people the most, at least based on how other countries view our country.

There ARE jobs out there. The problem is exactly what you said, that people are sitting in their local job centers waiting for an employer to find them. If they had the drive that the mexicans you referred to, to line up in the morning looking for cheap labor then they would have a job. Honestly, getting a job is as easy as going around until you get a call back. I have done it several times myself in a college town where if you go on campus and ask everyone will tell you there are no jobs.

[taranaki]

Originally Posted by carrrnuttt

• I posted a national news report, regarding terrorists that did get through. Yet you talk about "There's no evidence to suuggest that one single terrorist ever crossed the Mexican border, or intends to".

NO YOU DID NOT

When are the duller people on this board going to realise the difference between vague accusations and criminal convictions?

Show me a news report of persons caught crossing the border and subsequently charged and convicted of terrorism.If you can't, it's just anecdotal.

I wish the right would stop talking shit and come up with some facts.

[whttrshpunk]

Show me a news report of persons caught crossing the border and subsequently charged and convicted of terrorism.If you can't, it's just anecdotal.

So, lets say someone is caught with 50 kilograms of cocaine in their vehicle. According to your path of reasoning, we couldn't assume they intended to distribute it because they weren't actually distributing it when we caught them. We really couldn't assume they would even USE the cocaine eventually, since they weren't using either, just transporting. Nevermind that they would never get the chance to use or distribute since we caught them and took the cocaine. But I really find the "terrorists crossing the mexican border" issue somewhat of a "bonus" issue if you will, although that doesn't exactly represent what I'm trying to say. Anyhow...

Try to stay with me now, this could get difficult:

Crimes/Criminals should be punished -> Crossing the border illegally is a crime -> Therefore, people who cross the border illegally should be punished, i.e. deported. I don't see how some citizens of this country who decide to take action against criminals, that's right criminals, can be racist. After all, they live in Arizona so the only border they could reasonably be expected to volunteer for would be the Arizona/Mexico border. Bear in mind, however, it is not only Mexicans that pay to be brought across our borders, many other nationalities exploit this weak-point of our immigration system. So perhaps you would do well not to stereotype/generalize people whom you've only read about in an internet news article. Also, I don't mean to assert that all illegal aliens are "bad people", however they are criminals and should be treated as such. All crimes are crimes, no matter what the motivation.

I actually wrote a (somewhat unpopular) thesis on this subject a couple of years ago, and although I don't have it in front of me now, the estimated cost of illegal immigrants (welfare, health care etc.), as I recall, is in the billions range. Billions of dollars paid by natural or legal citizens of the United States to those who came here illegally. Seems like a pretty big deal to me.

[Flatrater]

Originally Posted by taranaki

I wish the right would stop talking shit and come up with some facts.

No that's funny I would of never thought carrrnuttt was from the right.

But we can show you facts yet you choose to ignore them. Afterall you haven't shown many facts lately.