Can it fit?

[Hilikus Funkin]

bah go GSR its an easier swap, plus its built right from the factory. lol. screw ls/vtec id rather have lower compression for higher boost. Thats just my opinion.

[kris]

Originally Posted by CivicSpoon

You're a new driver and want your own car so you don't mees up your fathers, yet you pick the least reliable option right off the bat. DO NOT get an LS/vtec! If you do I guarentee you'll mess up the engine within 3 months tops. I suggest you go with either a GS-R or LS/turbo.

Okay. So, you claim that a ls/vtec is unreliable? Yet you tell this new, young, inexperianced driver, as you put it. To go with a turbo setup? For one, a turbocharged setup requires a lot more money, time, and effort, than a ls/vtec. Not to mention the damage that a inproperly built, and tuned turbo setup can cause.

Have you ever built a ls/vtec-b20/vtec setup? Have you ever owned one, worked on one, maintained one, torn apart one? Anything like that? Or do you base the 3 month blowup on what you read off the interent?

I have. I have built them, driven them, torn them apart when things went wrong. I have seen what the damage of over-revving can do. I have seen what taking care of your engine can do. I have seen ls/vtec's that have been put together, with parts sitting around in a garage, and rubber hoses from the parts store, blow up before they hit 500 miles.

I have seen how well properly built motor will run. We just put a ls/vtec into a friends crx, who now runs consistant 13's, full interior. His EG hatch, with a b20/vtec, is driven 80 miles a day, to and from work. It can still handle the weekend beating at the races. It doesnt leak, or burn, a drop of oil. compression is still as strong as it was 10k miles ago.

If you want to hit redline, every single time you shift, stop light to stop light. Then yes, the life of your ls/b20/vtec will be short lived.

If you want to use rubber hoses for your oil lines, rather than stainless. Then yes, you will leak oil, and run in to problems.

If you want to take your engine to the cheapest machine shop in town. Yes, you get what you pay for, and I doubt it will last.

If you want to re-use stock headbolts, rod bolts, oil pump, water pump, gaskets, etc, that have 100k+ miles on them. Then yes, you will have a very large paper weight.

If you want to half ass your shit, then you will run into problems.

But if you build a setup correctly. Use quality componants, and take care of your shit. It will last.

Or, you can take a cop out answer, and say they are unreliable, go with a turbo.

[CivicSpoon]

That's the response I was looking for. I never claimed to have personal experience with an LS/vtec. I based my opinion on what I've read online, and seen with my own eyes. Had I actually had personal experience I would have mentioned it as so, but I haven't so I couldn't. But you've backed up most of what I said, and maybe you didn't realize it. I said that an LS/vtec can be just as reliable as any other stock engine, only if it's done correctly and you maintain it. All the "If you want to's" you listed are exactly what I was talking about. My point is that not everyone who is new to the idea of the LS/vtec will do it the right way. And not every write up about how to do it tells you everything you need to do to make it reliable. when I first researched it, I found a lot of write ups but most didn't give details on any part of it. Check out both of my posts and read how I said they can be unreliable, and how I said it is very possible that they can be reliable. Don't use selective reading with my posts to "try" and prove that I'm wrong, especially since you've backed up what I was saying yourself. I don't know, maybe I'm not very good at me writing skills or putting my thoughts together to write them out the way I mean to. If that's the case then I appoligise; I should have been more clear of what I was saying.

And yes I do believe that a turbo could be far more reliable that doing an LS/vtec. There are more things you need to make sure to do correctly with the LS/vtec than with some of the pre-made turbo kits out there. Take the Greddy kit for example. It comes with pretty much everything you need. The Blue box takes care of your engine managment for you. So all you need to do is make everything is hooked up properly and watch your boost gauge and A/F ratio. There are no gauges or anything like that to tell you if your engine was built properly. And you can turn the boost down if you get a boost controller (even if you build a cheap one yourself). You wouldn't get a ton of power out of it like you would if you got it properly tuned and turned up the boost, but it'd be more reliable than just cranking the boost up. There are reliability issues with both, might be over time but they're there. The guy I know who blew his engine took it to a very reputable machine shop in the area. He was told it could be done with no problem, and clearly there were a lot of problems. On the flip side, the same guy sold the blown engine and did a turbo b16a setup. He blew that engine up also, because he got boost happy and doesn't believe in getting it tuned.

So I'm not denying that an LS/vtec can be reliable, I'm not saying that a turbo kit is more reliable than an LS/vtec. And yes a turbo kit will cost a lot more $ than doing an LS/vtec. I think I just look at things in a different way. You know people who do the swap with great results and never have problems. I on the other hand see people who blow their sh*t up, for not knowing any better. So I never assume that anyone is going to infact do it the right way. So when someone asks a question, and make certain comments that stick out to me, I try to inform and prepare them for the worst that can happen. Maybe I'm too pesimistic some times, I'll try to be more clear on what I'm trying to say. And I admit suggesting the turbo option was a lapse in common sense with the point I was trying to make, I was wrong.