Parts 4 forced induction

[silverstangs]

Originally Posted by boosted331

You've built an engine before, and you're building an engine for the car right now. Super, now you might as well throw that big hunk of iron in the garbage for your pipe dream because:

• Block is too weak
• Crank is too weak
• Rods are too weak
• Tolerances are probably crap.

I'll start you off with the basics. Anything past 500-550 RWHP on a stock 302 block and you're on borrowed time. A mexican or sportsman block is a decent upgrade, but past 650-700 RWHP that is borderline as well. Enter the realm of high dollar aftermarket blocks. You have a few choices. A4, R302, Dart, Man-O-War. A4 is an SVO block and no longer produced, but you can find them used for around 1200-1500 dollars, plus machine work. R302 is the newer equivalent of A4's, and run around 1800 + machining. Dart sportsman blocks are around 1800, Dart iron eagles are around 2200. Man-O-War is in the 2200-2500 range depending on deck heights, etc. My Dart Sportsman needed a finish bore and hone, mains were line honed, and cam journals needed a line hone. Ran a little over 2100 for block + machining. You need a forged crank, perferably zero/neutral/internal/whatever you want to call it balance, forged rods, and forged 2618 pistons, no high silicone SRP crap. You need an aftermarket oil pan for your aftermarket oil pan.

In general, you need money. A hokey, home-built, stock block jalopy is not going to take 800 horsepower for an instant, so throw out that notion right now. Call a good engine builder, have them build you a nice and expensive shortblock. Call cammotion and get a custom cam ground, then call up TEA and get your heads. Then after you've spent in the neighbourhood of 9 grand, you can start to think about your fuel system, ECU, transmission, rear end, suspension, roll cage, other safety stuff, heck, you might even squeeze time in there to figure out your turbos.

Damn I should send you a case of beer............

I couldn't have said it better myself.

[boosted331]

Originally Posted by SkylineUSA

Boosted, layin it out for the masses He is absolutely right, power does not come cheap, wait reliable power does not come cheap.

If you can find an early 351w that will meet your power goals. I know plenty of guys running 700rwhp on those blocks for a few seasons, as long they are seasoned, which most should be because of there age, you are good to go.

I do not put a lot of faith in custom cams, that is my take on cams. I have done plenty of research on the subject, and I feel its a myth, hence me going with a F303.

The F cam works great in a lot of applications, but you will pick up a good amount of power with a custom cam. I helped put together a motor for a friend probably 6 or 7 years ago now, it was an A4 block stock bore with a 3.4 crank, so a 342. He was running an F-cam, hi-port's, a spyder intake, and a 6-speed. Turbo setup was a Cartech kit with twin T66's in an E-housing. From an F-cam to a 232/242 .617/.629 low lash 114 LSA solid roller. Low end power was the same off boost, spool picked up by 3-400 RPM's, and it made 40 RWHP more at the same boost levels. Cammotions custom cams are about 100 bucks more than an F-cam, what I would do is request a cam online, and see what they say. If it's similar to an F, just run the F. If you have plans of turning more than 6000 RPM's or have some really big turbos that need RPM's, they'll probably give you a custom cam in the 230/240 range.

351W blocks are nice and strong, but by the time you get the block, get the swap pan, get the different motor mounts, spend extra $$$ on the headers and downpipe to fit the taller block, a usually more expensive different intake, you're running right around the same price as a Dart Sportsman, so I personally would take the dart, and end up with a lighter car as well. One thing that bothers me about the 351W's is they have a huge 3" main journal, so you see a lot of frictional losses and extra heat caused by that big sucker. Another downside is if you want to upgrade the stock crank in your 351W that crank will not fit into any aftermarket blocks other than the 351 sportsman, as they all use the 2.75"/cleveland size main journals. You can run bearing spacers, I guess, but I've never seen a street motor with bearing spacers that didn't have problems down the line.

That is, of course, just my

[SkylineUSA]

Originally Posted by boosted331

The F cam works great in a lot of applications, but you will pick up a good amount of power with a custom cam. I helped put together a motor for a friend probably 6 or 7 years ago now, it was an A4 block stock bore with a 3.4 crank, so a 342. He was running an F-cam, hi-port's, a spyder intake, and a 6-speed. Turbo setup was a Cartech kit with twin T66's in an E-housing. From an F-cam to a 232/242 .617/.629 low lash 114 LSA solid roller. Low end power was the same off boost, spool picked up by 3-400 RPM's, and it made 40 RWHP more at the same boost levels. Cammotions custom cams are about 100 bucks more than an F-cam, what I would do is request a cam online, and see what they say. If it's similar to an F, just run the F. If you have plans of turning more than 6000 RPM's or have some really big turbos that need RPM's, they'll probably give you a custom cam in the 230/240 range.

351W blocks are nice and strong, but by the time you get the block, get the swap pan, get the different motor mounts, spend extra $$$ on the headers and downpipe to fit the taller block, a usually more expensive different intake, you're running right around the same price as a Dart Sportsman, so I personally would take the dart, and end up with a lighter car as well. One thing that bothers me about the 351W's is they have a huge 3" main journal, so you see a lot of frictional losses and extra heat caused by that big sucker. Another downside is if you want to upgrade the stock crank in your 351W that crank will not fit into any aftermarket blocks other than the 351 sportsman, as they all use the 2.75"/cleveland size main journals. You can run bearing spacers, I guess, but I've never seen a street motor with bearing spacers that didn't have problems down the line.

That is, of course, just my

That is a good point about the mains, but I will still go the cheap bastard route, I am not sure why, but it lures me to the darkside.

As for the custom cam your friend ran, did it idle fine? That's a pretty tall lift for a street car, dontcha think? Did he have any issues with that?

I wonder why there was so much bias on the exhaust for a turbo? That is strange.

I picked up my F303 for $125 brand new off of ebay, I thought the customs were going for around $325. Yes, I do agree if you are trying to ring out every last pony out of an engine go custom, but for me, more street driving I will stick with the F.

[boosted331]

Originally Posted by SkylineUSA

That is a good point about the mains, but I will still go the cheap bastard route, I am not sure why, but it lures me to the darkside.

As for the custom cam your friend ran, did it idle fine? That's a pretty tall lift for a street car, dontcha think? Did he have any issues with that?

I wonder why there was so much bias on the exhaust for a turbo? That is strange.

I picked up my F303 for $125 brand new off of ebay, I thought the customs were going for around $325. Yes, I do agree if you are trying to ring out every last pony out of an engine go custom, but for me, more street driving I will stick with the F.

I thought it idled fine, and the car is still running on the same combo today, he tore it down about a year ago to re-ring and throw in new bearings, gaskets, etc, but otherwise it still runs strong. His other weekend ride is a 69 Camaro with a 377" big bore SBC and a crazy big cam, it's like 274/266 @ .050, so I guess a 232/242 sounded pretty mild. It's .010/.010 hot lash so it doesn't need to be checked a lot, and the ramp rates are pretty smooth so it isn't a valve spring buster by any means. Probably pulls 12-13 inches at idle, so it's not too bad.

[tturnpaw]

Originally Posted by boosted331

You've built an engine before, and you're building an engine for the car right now. Super, now you might as well throw that big hunk of iron in the garbage for your pipe dream because:

• Block is too weak
• Crank is too weak
• Rods are too weak
• Tolerances are probably crap.

I'll start you off with the basics. Anything past 500-550 RWHP on a stock 302 block and you're on borrowed time. A mexican or sportsman block is a decent upgrade, but past 650-700 RWHP that is borderline as well. Enter the realm of high dollar aftermarket blocks. You have a few choices. A4, R302, Dart, Man-O-War. A4 is an SVO block and no longer produced, but you can find them used for around 1200-1500 dollars, plus machine work. R302 is the newer equivalent of A4's, and run around 1800 + machining. Dart sportsman blocks are around 1800, Dart iron eagles are around 2200. Man-O-War is in the 2200-2500 range depending on deck heights, etc. My Dart Sportsman needed a finish bore and hone, mains were line honed, and cam journals needed a line hone. Ran a little over 2100 for block + machining. You need a forged crank, perferably zero/neutral/internal/whatever you want to call it balance, forged rods, and forged 2618 pistons, no high silicone SRP crap. You need an aftermarket oil pan for your aftermarket oil pan.

In general, you need money. A hokey, home-built, stock block jalopy is not going to take 800 horsepower for an instant, so throw out that notion right now. Call a good engine builder, have them build you a nice and expensive shortblock. Call cammotion and get a custom cam ground, then call up TEA and get your heads. Then after you've spent in the neighbourhood of 9 grand, you can start to think about your fuel system, ECU, transmission, rear end, suspension, roll cage, other safety stuff, heck, you might even squeeze time in there to figure out your turbos.

You dont need to get an attitude about it. I know the block wont hold i shouldnt have mentioned that im building an engine 4 my car right now. It just confused you. That motor is just going to be my N/A 347 stroker. I know crank rods and block are all 2 weak. Dont try to fool me. Thats a race block. which is more than likely what i plan to buy. Only by ford racing. Ive got a huge list already for what i plan to do with the rest of the car. I have money. To be truthful, I have $27,000 in the bank right now. So like i said. I get it costs money, thats common sense. I just didnt ask for your opinion on pricing and if its right for me. I just asked for turbo parts. For some reason you are not understanding that.

[tturnpaw]

Originally Posted by boosted331

I thought it idled fine, and the car is still running on the same combo today, he tore it down about a year ago to re-ring and throw in new bearings, gaskets, etc, but otherwise it still runs strong. His other weekend ride is a 69 Camaro with a 377" big bore SBC and a crazy big cam, it's like 274/266 @ .050, so I guess a 232/242 sounded pretty mild. It's .010/.010 hot lash so it doesn't need to be checked a lot, and the ramp rates are pretty smooth so it isn't a valve spring buster by any means. Probably pulls 12-13 inches at idle, so it's not too bad.

I appreciate both your opinions dont get me wrong. I just hate it when people say i cant afford it and bullsh** like that. I have a problem with smart asses and im pretty sure you can see that. Im not doubting you boosted i was just asking about turbo internals and i got a "why dont you go bolt on some shorty headers onto your stock motor?" I would probably go with a F cam i have heard good things about them. I would probably get a nice aluminum ford racing block and forged eagle crank or a trick flow crank and forged eagle rods and some ross racing pistons. Maybe wiseco. Ive got a nice 8.8" lined up and ive got a lot of steeda suspension parts either here or on the way. I just gotta order me some brakes! So ive also been looking at Brodix heads and comparing them to the Edelbrock Victor jr. theres a huge price difference, but i was looking more for better for the setup.

[boosted331]

You're funny, too funny funny. Have any proof you have 27 large in the bank account, Mr. I turned 18 a few days ago?

No, I didn't think so. Like I said, save up from your McD's job for a few more months, maybe you can bolt an SC-trim and exhaust onto your stock car.

And remember champ, thinking you're going to buy something and actually having the means and ability to do it are 2 completely different things. I can think about plugging Brooke Burke, doesn't mean it's ever going to happen though.

[tturnpaw]

Originally Posted by boosted331

You're funny, too funny funny. Have any proof you have 27 large in the bank account, Mr. I turned 18 a few days ago?

No, I didn't think so. Like I said, save up from your McD's job for a few more months, maybe you can bolt an SC-trim and exhaust onto your stock car.

And remember champ, thinking you're going to buy something and actually having the means and ability to do it are 2 completely different things. I can think about plugging Brooke Burke, doesn't mean it's ever going to happen though.

YES i am funny, you jackass. But i was being serious. My dad died in '00 and left me around 30 thousand. some for school after high and the rest for whatever i want. I got his car, the 82. He had another 89 but i didnt need that for a car. So ya im guna lie about something like that. How old are you? You sound pretty f-in immature to be saying shit like im going to lie about how much money i have. once again this thread wasnt about money. Now lets get back to the subject, ladies. i guess if u call stock bottom end fully stock then it is. but the whole top end is aftermarket. id like one of these administrators to block you for your bullshit you keep trying to play. this is for people to talk about their cars, not talk about who has more money. I dont know what it is about you and exhaust, but i have MAC SHORTY HEADERS, MAC OFF ROAD H PIPE AND SPINTECH SIDE EXHAUST. jesus what is so hard for you to read my signature????? and as for the sc trim, id rather go paxton, because they are better than a trim. so fine if this is about talkin shit, we can talk shit.

[SkylineUSA]

Originally Posted by boosted331

I thought it idled fine, and the car is still running on the same combo today, he tore it down about a year ago to re-ring and throw in new bearings, gaskets, etc, but otherwise it still runs strong. His other weekend ride is a 69 Camaro with a 377" big bore SBC and a crazy big cam, it's like 274/266 @ .050, so I guess a 232/242 sounded pretty mild. It's .010/.010 hot lash so it doesn't need to be checked a lot, and the ramp rates are pretty smooth so it isn't a valve spring buster by any means. Probably pulls 12-13 inches at idle, so it's not too bad.

My Boss runs a .012/.012, so I check it at every oil change. 276/266 Holy crap I would not want to drive that car in Phoenix traffic in the middle of summer, because you know that car has no AC

[tturnpaw]

Originally Posted by SkylineUSA

My Boss runs a .012/.012, so I check it at every oil change. 276/266 Holy crap I would not want to drive that car in Phoenix traffic in the middle of summer, because you know that car has no AC

Lol, I live in Washington, and around here theres so much rain noone even has a thought caring about having an AC. In Phoenix thats a different story. I prefer windows and sunroofs. Maybe a targa top.