bad baterey? - Page 2

LMP · #16 03-08-2005, 08:26 PM

ALl your measurements are toally correct with the situation you have. All your readings on 3 and 4, either with relay in or out are correct.. 3 and 4 are internally connected together in the relay and get HOT when the relay is activated and then 3 and 4 are conected to the supply(2). What is required here is this: 1 must go ground: when you read 12v on 1, this is because it is ungrounded and you read the 12v supply to 5 through the coil that carries no current at this time. But for the relay to activate, 1 MUST go GROUND, and this is done by the ECM through a wire leading from ECM to relay.

NOw at startup, when you turn the key ON, ECM activates the relay ONLY for about 1 second to prime the cylinders and will NOT activate the relay again unless rotation of engine is detected.
NOw.....do you have the relay activate for 1 second when turning key ON ...and then the ECM waits for engine rotation and this is detected by the crank position sensor........
If you have that 1 second pump burst at KEY ON, and then nothing when you start, then the ECM works OK but does not see the negine rotate: most probable and common problem: CRANK SENSOR.
IF you do not have the 1 second burst...then either you have a bad connextion from ECM to pump (1 to 1) or you have a faulty ECM.....

cbeck · #17 03-08-2005, 09:03 PM

how do i keep missing LMP's posts? crist, someone bann me already!

(rest of message deleted and i am going home now)

countryboy · #18 03-09-2005, 04:31 AM

also with the key off and relay instaled i got
2-hot
1,3,4,5-ground
if i ground #1 with relay in the pump runs.

LMP · #19 03-09-2005, 07:19 AM

All of that totally normal.
We just want #1 to ground for at least 1 second when turning the key on and then when engine cranks.

countryboy · #20 03-09-2005, 07:25 AM

Thanks you are a big help I will check the crank sender tonight. Will I need to check the cam sender to?

LMP · #21 03-09-2005, 07:27 AM

Did you check for that 1 second pump burst at KEY ON? (someone must watch the voltmeter or have an ear on the pump while you turn the key on)
I'm going to doublecheck about cam, but probably not in cause here. ANd.....did you have codes read on that computer?...OF course that is easy when the car runs and you can go for that check....but since it is stranded there!!!...
.IN fact, do you have the CEL on? Crank sender error would normally light it up (I guess you would have told )..

countryboy · #22 03-09-2005, 07:48 AM

i do not get the 1 second start up (i dont think so any way) i will check again . where is the computer located on this so i can check the wireing? this car did have an intermitent problem with not whanting to start the last couple of weeks but never gave a code so i am hopping may be it will bw just a bad wire .

countryboy · #23 03-09-2005, 07:50 AM

not shure what the cel is ?

LMP · #24 03-09-2005, 08:07 AM

Check Engine Light
COmputer is BEHIND LOWER RIGHT SIDE OF INSTRUMENT PANEL

IN fact.....since you can run the pump with a jumper, have you tried to start it in the "jumped" condition? (I'd try it!). THis will also confirm/deny the crank sensor option. If it starts, then obviously the crank and cam sensors are most probably OK!

countryboy · #25 03-09-2005, 08:50 AM

good ideai will do that hanks a lot

LMP · #26 03-09-2005, 08:54 AM

Caution: you should have someone connect the jumper just as you are ready to start the car this to avoid any chance of flooding that might prevent firing up and yield false results. If it starts, then should try what happens if disconnect the jumper.
AND..if it does not want to fire up, do not insist. Starting for long periods without firing will flood the cylinders and fuel will seep to the oil pan........I know it by experience and not proud of it....I could have taken the oil that I removed and use it directly as fuel for the chain saw! But I poured it in the heating oil tank and it went happily as heat for the house..

countryboy · #27 03-09-2005, 03:31 PM

ok i have no 1 sec. pump run at key on and i checked wire from relay to computer and relay to pump all good .so it sounds like the computer but would like to check crank sender any way could you let me know what i need to do to check it?

countryboy · #28 03-09-2005, 06:28 PM

with out trying to start it

LMP · #29 03-09-2005, 06:50 PM

..the crank sensor is not involved in the initial 1 sec burst . 'll check the diagrams to see if some supply to the ECM might be involved...in fact, ground connections, since we need a sink to ground.
I understand you have checked the continuity from computer to relay and found it OK.
BUt....did you try starting the car with the fuel pump "jumped" to run? THis would single out the problem to unique cause if it started.
NOtice that I had a very similar problem with a 1989 Taurus (the hell with it &|$%?* - and I'm polite - tell any problem, it had it) and it turned out the 12v feed to the computer was missing...corroded wire ! I'd pay a visit to the 12V pin that feeds 12V to the ECM
Load that file
www.geocities.com/lmp4203/kiasport/Injection.PDF
ECU Checks:
battery voltage on ECU pin 26: check fuse condition
6 28 34 55 are solid grounds
5 volt at pin 59

No procedure found for formal CKS check. If ECU is faulty or not fed 12 V, a lot of other things will not function, including supply to crank/cam sensors. I'd check to see spark at a spark plug but given where they are, I'd give up at least until absolutely necessary.
For time being, getting that fuelpump to operate is mandatory. At this point, I'd start looking for a salvage ECU for a quick swap test.

countryboy · #30 03-11-2005, 10:49 AM

ok thanks for every thing i will have to leave it alone for a couple of days but will let you know what i find

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