93 Ford Escort St. Wagon Won't turn over

[A. Souphound]

Originally Posted by Jet-Lee

If ur diode is bad, that means it's letting the battery drain through the alternator, am I not correct? If you don't have enough to turn the crank right off, you get a click and it quits tryin. If your draining through your alternator, that's a draw on your battery that could be used to start the car. You're probably getting a start when you catch the diode in a good mood and lets you keep that valuable amperage. Change your alternator!

Jet-Lee,
To check for battery drain:
a. Key "off", disconnect the (-) battery terminal. Connect a test light between the (-) battery terminal and the disconnected battery cable. It the light comes on, there is a short (drain) somewhere in the electrical system.
b. Disconnect the alternator wiring harness. If the light goes out, there's a problem in the alternator, and it should be replaced.
c. If the light stays on, pull each fuse until the light goes out. (This will tell you which component is shorted.)
Alvin

[A. Souphound]

Originally Posted by kirfer

I have a manual transmission and I had the clutch pushed in all the way. The only thing it does is when you turn the key all the way on it makes one very light click. The tow truck tried to give me a jump and nothing except one very low click. My husband cleaned the terminals and put a battery charger on the battery and still nothing.

Kirfer,
I see in this tag where you mention a "very light click" and a "very low click" this is a clue that maybe you are not getting sufficient voltage from the ignition switch to the solonoid, or solonoid is not grounded to the fender. Remove the small wire from the starter solonoid. Connect a VOM between the wire and a good ground turn the Ignition switch to start and read the voltage....should be 12 volts. If the voltage is lower than 12V put a jumper wire from the (+) battery terminal to the ignition switch connector on the solonoid. The starter should engage if the solonoid is good. If not, replace the solonoid. If the starter does engage, the problem is with the ignition switch/circuit.
Alvin.

[Powerefx]

Gotta replace the alternator in my opinion, cause the battery is not getting enough Juice(AMPS) To push the sparks to turn the car on. If you jump the car you will notice it always starts running, but once you turn the car of, and try to turn it over agian, u will hear that click.

[Jet-Lee]

Originally Posted by A. Souphound

Jet-Lee,
To check for battery drain:
a. Key "off", disconnect the (-) battery terminal. Connect a test light between the (-) battery terminal and the disconnected battery cable. It the light comes on, there is a short (drain) somewhere in the electrical system.
b. Disconnect the alternator wiring harness. If the light goes out, there's a problem in the alternator, and it should be replaced.
c. If the light stays on, pull each fuse until the light goes out. (This will tell you which component is shorted.)
Alvin

I know that....

I was explaining to them.....

[A. Souphound]

Originally Posted by Jet-Lee

I know that....

I was explaining to them.....

Jet-Lee,
Sorry, didn't mean to offend you.
I thought you identified the alternator as the 'cause' the car wouldn't start, and stated it should be replaced without making a determination it was defective. I was trying to explain by way of instruction, a simple check (taking only a couple of minutes) could save a lot of money. My philosophy is, testing is cheap, parts are expensive.
Once again, sorry if I mis-understood your statement.
Alvin

[Jet-Lee]

Originally Posted by A. Souphound

Jet-Lee,
Sorry, didn't mean to offend you.
I thought you identified the alternator as the 'cause' the car wouldn't start, and stated it should be replaced without making a determination it was defective. I was trying to explain by way of instruction, a simple check (taking only a couple of minutes) could save a lot of money. My philosophy is, testing is cheap, parts are expensive.
Once again, sorry if I mis-understood your statement.
Alvin

I gotcha. I aimed straight at the alternator because he's already stated that it is defective.

Originally Posted by rmotl

Well, I took it to AutoZone and they ran the test you suggested. The battery is fine (new), the starter is fine (new) but the alternator has a "bad diode". I know what a diode is and what it does, but it doesn't sound like the solution to my problem! The diode lets the alternator "charge" the battery when running but doesn't allow it to "drain" the battery when not running. The diode is like a 'one way switch'... if the diode is bad, it'll drain the battery over time so it'll never start.

[chevyn0va1]

Originally Posted by Jet-Lee

I gotcha. I aimed straight at the alternator because he's already stated that it is defective.

Right I agree with jetlee why put off the inevitable?

BTW alvin I didnt know of those steps you mentioned. Thanks for the tips

[A. Souphound]

Originally Posted by chevyn0va1

Right I agree with jetlee why put off the inevitable?

BTW alvin I didnt know of those steps you mentioned. Thanks for the tips

ChevynOva1, Jet-Lee
I have a problem believing the alternator is the culprit for the following reason/s: My rational:
The car did not start by jump starting. This takes the alternator theory out of the equation. The problem has to lie between the battery and the starter i.e. starter relay (solonoid) A faint click of the solonoid as reported means low voltage from the ignition key, or bad ground between the solonoid and the fender, or the (-) battery cable to the chassis, and/or the chassis to engine ground cable. In one of my tags, I suggested to 'hotwire' from battery (+) terminal to the ignition wire terminal on the starter solonoid after the wire was disconnected. Starter should engage if solonoid is good, and (-) cable grounded to the chassis and engine.

1. If, an alternator diode was bad, the 'output' would be affected and the battery would not have received a full charge. Autozone said the battery was 'good'. I would have checked the battery voltage for a 12.5V reading or recharged it.
2. Start the car and recheck the battery voltage at 2,000 RPM reading should be 14 - 15V. Turn on the headlights, voltage should drop momentarily, and then come back up. If it does, alternator is working properly.
2.a. If the battery reads 13V or less at 2,000 RPM, check and see if the alternator indicator light is burning. If it isn't, check to see if it is working when the switch is turned on. (Sometimes a fault in the light circuit will cause the alternator to malfunction). If the light works properly, the fault is in the regulator side of the alternator and it should be replaced.
All the best,
Alvin

[rmotl]

Originally Posted by A. Souphound

From your narrative it sounds like you have a bad starter solonoid (relay) located on L/H inner fender...

OK... FYI: I don't work on my own cars... It's just that my mechanic doesn't know what else to do and I don't want to spend another $400-$600 'trying' things on a hunch.

Since I have a new starter, wouldn't I have a new solonoid too?

Do you honestly beleive that the diode in the alternator would cause this? It's an expensive thing to replace just to 'try', ya know?

I can't 'recreate' the problem (the click), it's very random. But 90% of the time, just opening the hood and shutting it again makes it start. I checked the ground at the frame... it's solid. I can't 'see' any wires that are stripped or touching either.

Get this... the 'click' happened earlier this week and I opened the hood but it still didn't start. THEN I wiggled the "EEC TEST" box and IT STARTED!!! WHAT?!?!?!? I'm at a total loss here! I'm losing my hair from pulling it out! I'm begining to think that the 'wiggle' of opening and shutting the hood is making (or breaking) the faulty connection. All of my (+) pos and (-) neg battery cables that I can follow seem to be in good condition AND connected solidly. I wish someone here has had this problem before AND fixed it.

Would a Ford Service Center be able to figure this out? Would they have ever seen this before? I'm at my wits end with this!

BTW: Thank you ALL for your thoughts and guidance. I will ask my mechanic to check... the ground at the solonoid, the solonoid itself and THEN the alternator (in that order). Cheaper is better!

[A. Souphound]

Rmotl,
"Since I have a new starter, wouldn't I have a new solonoid"?.....No, the two are separate components on the escort.
You are right, you have identified the problem....by moving the EEC or wiring indicates something is loose, and then mades contact. By opening and closing the hood you are causing something loose, or broken to make contact. It is a simple process to find a loose connector, corroded or broken wire, or poor ground with a voltmeter in that area. Although a Ford shop would find the problem quickly if you tell them the events, however, it's not necessary to pay those kinds of shop prices for simple troubleshooting. EXAMPLE: Many times electrical components have 'case grounds' that means there is no ground wire, just the physical contact between the component and the chassis or engine. It is a simple check with a Voltmeter to determine the resistance between the component and the chassis or engine. If there is high resistance, current goes down and things like relays etc. don't work. Keep going, you are almost there.
Alvin

[Jet-Lee]

so you've identified a cheap problem....NOW CHANGE YOUR ALTERNATOR!!! AutoZone told you it was bad, now get it fixed. I've been stuck in the snow because of a bad alternator, and had to change it at 11pm (same night, in the snow), in order to get home. It's not fun. GET IT REPLACED!!! A bad alternator can ruin your battery.

[chevyn0va1]

Originally Posted by A. Souphound

Rmotl,
"Since I have a new starter, wouldn't I have a new solonoid"?.....No, the two are separate components on the escort.
You are right, you have identified the problem....by moving the EEC or wiring indicates something is loose, and then mades contact. By opening and closing the hood you are causing something loose, or broken to make contact. It is a simple process to find a loose connector, corroded or broken wire, or poor ground with a voltmeter in that area. Although a Ford shop would find the problem quickly if you tell them the events, however, it's not necessary to pay those kinds of shop prices for simple troubleshooting. EXAMPLE: Many times electrical components have 'case grounds' that means there is no ground wire, just the physical contact between the component and the chassis or engine. It is a simple check with a Voltmeter to determine the resistance between the component and the chassis or engine. If there is high resistance, current goes down and things like relays etc. don't work. Keep going, you are almost there.
Alvin

You could try to unplug that plug then make all the contacts are clean( buy little sandpaper) on both the plug and the other end tabs. Even the case like alvin suggests. Then coat them with a protector dielectric grease, vasaline. = cheep fix

Again I agree with jetlee and the post after this one replace the alternator sooner then later. its 5 degrees here I wouldnt want to fool with it later.

[rmotl]

Originally Posted by A. Souphound

No, the two are separate components on the escort.
You are right, you have identified the problem....by moving the EEC or wiring indicates something is loose, and then made contact. By opening and closing the hood you are causing something loose, or broken to make contact. Alvin

Thank you, I will check the ground at the solonoid and follow the wires near the bat/EEC box to see if I can find it.

And JetLee... YES... I'll change the alternator! Geesh!

FYI: I live in Las Vegas... no 5º or snow here! LOL!

Thanks everyone! I'll let you all know how it works out sometime next week!

rmotl

[rmotl]

Well.... no one could figure this one out!!!!!

But it finally stop acting up after I sprayed the floor, seats and ceiling
with "Static Guard"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YES STATIC GUARD!

My wife was getting shocked every time she exited the car so I decided
to spray it down with static guard and it's been over 3 weeks without
the above mentioned problem!

It doesn't surprise me that this is the solution since I knew it was a
bizzar problem but still... who would have guessed Static Guard. I've
sprayed the seats once every two weeks and no problems yet! I hope
others read/see this and I hope it helps!

Thanks for all your help everyone!

[chevyn0va1]

Originally Posted by rmotl

Well.... no one could figure this one out!!!!!

But it finally stop acting up after I sprayed the floor, seats and ceiling
with "Static Guard"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YES STATIC GUARD!

My wife was getting shocked every time she exited the car so I decided
to spray it down with static guard and it's been over 3 weeks without
the above mentioned problem!

It doesn't surprise me that this is the solution since I knew it was a
bizzar problem but still... who would have guessed Static Guard. I've
sprayed the seats once every two weeks and no problems yet! I hope
others read/see this and I hope it helps!

Thanks for all your help everyone!

if it is true that should be telling you something is not working. (dont get too excited that you cured it I think its a band aid) You know your computer is in the console (at least mine is). maybe the computers connections need attention.