Ls-1 to all ford motors, which one????

[GTStang]

Who says in the start this is not a price issue... then starts posting prices and bitching bout that....

[emokid15]

Originally Posted by GTStang

Who says in the start this is not a price issue... then starts posting prices and bitching bout that....

Yup.

[syr74]

Originally Posted by ls1mazda93rx7

i could be wrong but, ls-2 400hp $6800 crate engine-ford 5.0 crate with 400hp= http://www.fordracingparts.com/crate...dularcobra.asp. I think the ls1 is around 7k or more cheaper.

Picking and choosing particular motor combos can help your argument but it can hurt it as well. The 5.0L "Cammer" is significantly more than the LS2 because the block and other parts of the Ford crate motor are basically race parts. Aluminum Mod motor block in general are much stronger than LS series blocks and the block on the Cammer is essentially overkill to the extreme.

If you bought a 5.0L Cammer motor to leave it as is, you bought the wrong motor. This is essentially a platform meant to be built upon for those looking for ridiculous horsepower. Also, the mod motor is made up of mostly very low run parts whereas the LS2 has the benefit of being a production motor.

A better comparison would be the 5.4L Lightning crate motor (get one while you can they will be gone soon) which rings in at about the same price the LS2 does. It makes about 30-40 less actual horespower than the LS2 but an enormous amount more torque than the Chevy mill.

Yeah, it's blown, but it is in the price range and if out-of-the-crate speed is what you need the Lightning mill will make your 69 Cougar go like it has a JATO strapped to it. Stock for stock the ludicrous torque curve of the Lightning would be a definate advanatge over the LS2 if you have the traction to make it hook.

And did I mention that for about 2500 dollars more I can be making well over 600 rwhp reliably on pump gas? Show me a crate LS series motor that can do the same for the same amount of money.

The LS mill is very nice, and has somel advantages over other motors. (Mush smaller and a bit lighter than the mod motors) But, to act as though Ford builds nothing that competes is laughable.

[ls1mazda93rx7]

"And did I mention that for about 2500 dollars more I can be making well over 600 rwhp reliably on pump gas?" well show me and ill shut up!.oh can i put a supercharger on the ls-2??

[ls1mazda93rx7]

if you all would like to call (205) 887-5161. and talk to mr.brian hinson im sure he would send you a video of his 800hp ls-1 and just think he's making a twinturbo set-up. when hell tell's you or send you a video just think of me!.

[ls1mazda93rx7]

Originally Posted by GTStang

Who says in the start this is not a price issue... then starts posting prices and bitching bout that....

.U know your absolutely right---->
"I disagree. Making 600hp out of a LS series motor without nitrous is an excercise in spending money unless you started with a Z06 or something like it to begin with. And therein lies the rub, the only LS series motors you can mod to 500hp cheaply are the ones that were expensive as hell to begin with". man you got to pay more att.

[ls1mazda93rx7]

the only person making points here is is syr74.and like i said i wasn't the first person to talk about price, if you read more closely.

[Ground Rat]

Originally Posted by ls1mazda93rx7

well what ford engine is better?.And this is not a PRICE ISSUE .

I'm not really sure what the point of this thread is, except to start a flame war possibly? The blown 5.4L and blown 4.6L could both be considered better engines. They are both lightweight engines that are reliable, efficient, and put out more power than the LS1. Both are cheap to upgrade and respond well to mods. How's that for a comeback from a chevy guy?!

[syr74]

Originally Posted by ls1mazda93rx7

"And did I mention that for about 2500 dollars more I can be making well over 600 rwhp reliably on pump gas?" well show me and ill shut up!.oh can i put a supercharger on the ls-2??

Well yes, you can put a supercharger on an LS2! Can you do it for around 2500 bucks and make close to 600 hp at the wheels? I don't think so.

http://www.kennebell.net/supercharge...lighting54.htm

And there ya go. Notice this site says 560+hp. But, look at the mods. Ram-air, throttle body, chip,modded inlet, and a twin screw blower in place of the standard rootes. They have yet to add exhaust/headers to this truck or cams. Hmmm, wonder if that'll get you above 600whp...lol

This is getting tiring. It's like you showed up and said "I know nothing about motors but I think the LS series GM is better anyway....now you prove that it is not." If you are so intent that the LS is better then you do the research and figure out what you are talking about. I already know.

[syr74]

Originally Posted by ls1mazda93rx7

.U know your absolutely right---->
"I disagree. Making 600hp out of a LS series motor without nitrous is an excercise in spending money unless you started with a Z06 or something like it to begin with. And therein lies the rub, the only LS series motors you can mod to 500hp cheaply are the ones that were expensive as hell to begin with". man you got to pay more att.

Well, there was a reason for that actually. I slam dunked the "price no object" one right off the bat, as there are 1500hp mod motors all over the place compared to LS motors.

[black84z28]

Originally Posted by syr74

Well, do you want to compare stock for stock or highly modded to highly modded? There is a lot to compare here.

Potential wise you cannot make the same power with the LS1 as compared to a mod motor all things being equal. Put simply, when optimized for what ever particular combination they are running multiple valves make the difference in this comparo as they have in most comparos for decades now. Strength of motors also plays a part.

There are 4.6L DOHC mod motors with what is basically a stock bottom end making 1500hp with twin turbos. (Improved bearings and oiling being the only mods) A stock block LS1 is incapable of making that kind of power reliably even at 5.7L/350ci. Even with forged internals the block just cannot do it. (To be fair the old Windsor Ford blocks cannot take much more than about 500hp without cracking down the lifter valley)

For another example you can make about 500hp out of a n/a DOHC 4.6L motor with a mild motor combo. Take an aluminum 4.6L block, have larger sleeves pressed in which increases the bore adding inches but more importantly seriously unshrouds the valves! With a few other mods it is very easy to make 500hp out of 5.0L with this motor and run on pump gas.

Also, if you do that same "large bore" modification to an otherwise stock 05 Mustang GT 4.6L 3-valve hp would jump from an actual 320 (rated at 300 by Ford) to about 350hp on 87 octane gas! In truth you should make considerably more than that but I like to be conservative. If you contemplate doing this same mod to a long stroke (5.4L block) you would end up with a 6.0L motor that made about the same hp and more torque than the new C6 Vette 6.0L LS2 on 87 octane gas!

For reference show me an LS1 based motor that can make 350hp out of 5.0L in production trim on regular unleaded. We will be waiting a while, because GM has yet to make one that even gets close to that number in that kind of trim. Even GM's 6.0L LS2 needs premium gas to make 400hp, and that is with another liter of displacement.

Sooner or later GM wil move to multipile valves out of necessity. The LS series motor is very nice, but it is about as far as you can develop the pushrod too. The mod motor is still relatively new, and when GM does move to OHC's accross the board they will be several years behind in engineering.

are you kidding me?...the ls1 itself is a very unrated motor...a few motors have been dynoed at 400 at the crank...stock..ALSO...IF YOU WANNA SEE WHAT AN LS1 CAN DO...head over to tremek.com...they have a STOCk head and STOCK bottom end car running 9.6@138mph

http://www.ls1speed.com/movies/jugga964.WMV

got any stangs that can do that...the only 4.6 mod motor that is worth a fuck is the 4v cobra motor because ford built that motor to take power and dumped the goodies like rods and pistons in it from the factory.....any cam only mod cars running high 10s with a cam change only?...ls cars are...

is there a ls1 car in the 8s?...i am pretty sure there is

and the crap about gm making power with a smaller displacement motor...wtf...everyone knows the more cubes you have the more power you can make...if that wasn't so people with mod cars like shaun highland would NEVER stroke those motors out

[syr74]

First of all b.s., stock LS1's do not make 400hp at the crank. I have a friend who ran a dyno until about a year ago and I have literally seen hundreds of cars run accross it. LS6 powered Z06's only dyno in the 355 rwhp range (that equates to about 415 hp at the crank) And that is the stoutest LS series motor sold on our shores to date!

Both the LS1 and LS6 were somewhat under-rated from the factory as I allude to above, but I seriously hope you do not believe anybody is dumb enough to believe they dyno at 400rwhp stock. And, if that number was for modded cars I am not sure what the point was as a modded LS series motor can indeed make 400 rwhp as can most anything else.

As for a LS1 wth a cam change only running 10's. Gotta ring the b.s. bell on this one too. The fastest of the LS series car, the C5 Z06, runs mid 12's bone stock. With NOTHING but a cam change you now run high 10's?.?.?...... a second and a half improvement with nothing but a cam on a n/a car? Um...no, and I cannot imagine anyone else buying such a ridiculous claim. This is like debating with a kid in Junior High.

However, I will point out that 03-04 Cobras run well into the 10's all the time with simple bolt ons (pulley, chip, throttle body, ram air, exhaust) and slicks. It may be unfair because the Cobra is supercharged and lends itself to big increases in power easily, but this is racing and racing is not always fair.

Also, the comment about cubic inches was to point out what should have been an obvious fact. Ford's modular V-8's can match LS series power levels with fewer cubic inches even when n/a. In other words the LS series motors HAVE TO have the cubic inches to make big power, the Ford's can do it smaller and only get better as they get bigger. I agree that cubic inches are a good thing, but what happens when the Ford motors are as big (and mod motors can be bigger than 6.0L) as the LS motors? Nothing good for your side. That one apparently just went right over your head.

As for the Cobra's 4v being the only motor worth a "fuck"... every LS series motor sold in a car in America uses cast pistons just like the standard DOHC Ford V-8's (MkVIII, Aviator, etc.) So by your standard every LS series motor sucks? Good argument there Newton.

As for LS series motors running 8's, your point is? There are plenty of 4.6L mod motors running's 8's and faster. A whooole lot more mods run these times than LS series motors. Take a look for yourself

http://www.modmaxracing.com/

http://www.foxlakeracing.com/

Have a nice day.

[black84z28]

Originally Posted by syr74

First of all b.s., stock LS1's do not make 400hp at the crank. I have a friend who ran a dyno until about a year ago and I have literally seen hundreds of cars run accross it. LS6 powered Z06's only dyno in the 355 rwhp range (that equates to about 415 hp at the crank) And that is the stoutest LS series motor sold on our shores to date!

Both the LS1 and LS6 were somewhat under-rated from the factory as I allude to above, but I seriously hope you do not believe anybody is dumb enough to believe they dyno at 400rwhp stock. And, if that number was for modded cars I am not sure what the point was as a modded LS series motor can indeed make 400 rwhp as can most anything else.

As for a LS1 wth a cam change only running 10's. Gotta ring the b.s. bell on this one too. The fastest of the LS series car, the C5 Z06, runs mid 12's bone stock. With NOTHING but a cam change you now run high 10's?.?.?...... a second and a half improvement with nothing but a cam on a n/a car? Um...no, and I cannot imagine anyone else buying such a ridiculous claim. This is like debating with a kid in Junior High.

However, I will point out that 03-04 Cobras run well into the 10's all the time with simple bolt ons (pulley, chip, throttle body, ram air, exhaust) and slicks. It may be unfair because the Cobra is supercharged and lends itself to big increases in power easily, but this is racing and racing is not always fair.

Also, the comment about cubic inches was to point out what should have been an obvious fact. Ford's modular V-8's can match LS series power levels with fewer cubic inches even when n/a. In other words the LS series motors HAVE TO have the cubic inches to make big power, the Ford's can do it smaller and only get better as they get bigger. I agree that cubic inches are a good thing, but what happens when the Ford motors are as big (and mod motors can be bigger than 6.0L) as the LS motors? Nothing good for your side. That one apparently just went right over your head.

As for the Cobra's 4v being the only motor worth a "fuck"... every LS series motor sold in a car in America uses cast pistons just like the standard DOHC Ford V-8's (MkVIII, Aviator, etc.) So by your standard every LS series motor sucks? Good argument there Newton.

As for LS series motors running 8's, your point is? There are plenty of 4.6L mod motors running's 8's and faster. A whooole lot more mods run these times than LS series motors. Take a look for yourself

http://www.modmaxracing.com/

http://www.foxlakeracing.com/

Have a nice day.

well i guess alot of engine dyno tests are wrong...when i say a ls1 dynos 400hp its at the crank..."reading comprehension"...if i was talking about the car i would mention a 98-02 car and rwhp...right?...pick up a super chevy or chevy high performance where these motors were dynoed...its publisized..

http://www.airflowresearch.com/dyno/ls1_030804.htm

here is a STOCK ls1 dynoing 428hp with a set of long tubes...

the fastest ls1 car with "only a cam" change is a class of cars racing...the only thing that was internally done to the car and it ran a 10.93..other things could be done...dont be so stupid..too bad a kid in juniour high has to set out and explain it to you...look for a hotrod article a few months back...its has the nations fastest ls1 cars..

looky here....[url[http://www.ls1.com/qtrmile1.htm[/url]

look at number 39?...whats this?....is that a 10.88@127 with just exhaust/convertor programming and nitrous?...looks to me likes that not even alot of nitrous!....no cam or heads were mentioned...good for a junior high kid?...

holy shit...look at 38!!!...he has a 10.88 also!...nothing major was done!....number 33?....ouch...even faster!...and these cars didn't even have a cam change!..so who is wrong?...oh yea...the fastest known stock zo6 ran a [email protected] some more research
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/archiv...x.php/t-162655


yes...the cobra can run in the 10s...its fi!...fi motors respond well to exhaust and other mods because svt corked those cars up from the factory....yea...racing is not fair like how my friends cobra lost on the highway to a firends modded 94 talon...imagine that...a 4banger..

lol...i love the cubic inch argument...ford blah blah...THATS WHY ALL THE BIG GUYS STROKE THOSE MOTORS!...what is a 331?...a stroker with more cu inches..if you wanna go fast beyond bench racing in chat forums...you will notice that the motor is a giant air pump...more air you can stuff in it...the more power it will make!..hence wanting cu inches..i saw something of a twin turbo 655cu inch(?) pontiac motor making over 2800hp....you gonna do that with a 350 pontiac?...no..lin the end its cubic inhes or have a power adder that can make up for the cubic inches and force as much air in that motor as possible....but a 4.6 n/a will not take on a ls1 n/a....whats the fastest 4.6 mod motor n/a?....lol...i can pretty much bet it wont beat the fastest ls1


i mentioned the cobra 4v because ford slapped great parts in in...for a FORCED INDUCTION car you happen to need parts like the manley rods and wiseco pistons thee motors have...they did that car right and if you know anything about the 4.6 rods on the n/a cars...you know those and the crank are not known as the strongest..still pretty funny when a cast piston ls1 can still run a 9.6@138 with a stock bottom end/heads..good reasoning newton?...dumbass


yea...alot of cars can be fast with power adders...point is?...i can show you a vid of a ls1 car running a 7.50...if you have the cash...anything will be a moster at the track..

[GTStang]

Originally Posted by black84z28

are you kidding me?...the ls1 itself is a very unrated motor...a few motors have been dynoed at 400 at the crank...stock..ALSO...IF YOU WANNA SEE WHAT AN LS1 CAN DO...head over to tremek.com...they have a STOCk head and STOCK bottom end car running 9.6@138mph

http://www.ls1speed.com/movies/jugga964.WMV

got any stangs that can do that...the only 4.6 mod motor that is worth a fuck is the 4v cobra motor because ford built that motor to take power and dumped the goodies like rods and pistons in it from the factory.....any cam only mod cars running high 10s with a cam change only?...ls cars are...

is there a ls1 car in the 8s?...i am pretty sure there is

and the crap about gm making power with a smaller displacement motor...wtf...everyone knows the more cubes you have the more power you can make...if that wasn't so people with mod cars like shaun highland would NEVER stroke those motors out

Wow a stock blocked stuffed wit thousands of dollars of new forged internals, worked over till there is no tom stock heads ran 9's I'm impressed...... Wait..... maybe I'm not cause they ran 9's wit an 03-04 cobra without even cracking a valve cover gasket and only 8 months after the cars could be bought. But your right the LS1 is the superior motor......

So yes we do have Stangs that can do that and I bet you more of them and they did it for less money.

Sean Hyland (spell it right if your gonna talk about them) all they need to stroke Mod motors for more power huh? Gee that is funny cause the John Mehovitz 6.77@209mph Mod Mustang is powered by a Sean Hyland motor and what do you know it's the stock 281cu.!

Cubes are a wonderful thing.... but it's not the only way to make power.

[black84z28]

when something says stock bottom end and stock heads...what does that mean?...new thousand of dollars stuffed in the block isn't stock


so you mean that STOCK 281 uses shm parts?...that bottom end is NOT stock!

http://www.seanhylandmotorsport.com/



John Mehovitz - Fastest 4.6 Modular Engine In The World
6.77@209mph - NHRA Record Holder - Winners use SHM 4.6 Power
John, Mehovitz, the world's fastest 4.6 drag car makes more than 1700hp from only 281 cubic inches! John has relied on SHM engines using exclusive SHM products like our dual valve spring kit, billet camshafts and 300M connecting rods to product the incredible power that he makes, reliably. John has consistently been the worlds fastest 4.6 for over 7 years running - relying on SHM 4.6 Power all the way.