Full Size Pickups

[Euro19]

Originally Posted by calgary_redneck

The dodge ram is the worst of the big 3 and always have been, they have improved their trucks in the latest redesign but they are still not up to standard. The hemi engine is very overated not only is it not clean as far as emissions goes it is very unfuel efficent and consitering this is a new design it is some what distressing. Dodge have a history of having tranny failures too so hopefully this is not the case with this one as well. The new f150 although a huge improvement over the former very substandard f150 is an unexeptional vehical, The chevy although a very nice truck in its time is getting old in the tooth now. The tundra is a very very nice truck with lexus like quality how ever it is a little small and dated. The nissan truck I would say has to be the best at the moment it has a beautiful smooth and powerful engines with well build chasis and suspention and some of the best pay load and towing numbers in class.

IS THAT RIGHT?

[curtis73]

If you're going for a reliable truck, do the Japanese... I lean toward the Toyota for ultimate reliability, but they aren't as fun to look at (in my opinion) as the Titan.

If you're looking for a supremely rugged chassis and want the brick s#!thouse approach, do the Ford or Chevy. Up until the latest silverado, I would have just said Ford, but the new silverados are rock solid, too. Its often times something you don't consider much, but the ruggedness of the chassis is a huge consideration for me. Ever watch a COMPACT import pickup on the highway? The beds flop around and you know that metal fatigues like that. They are truck bodies on spindly frames that carry Camry brakes and little tiny axles. I had an F250 that didn't need brakes for 65,000 miles, 30,000 of which were towing a 10,000 lb trailer across the country five times. It also never needed tie rod ends or shocks... its just all heavy duty stuff that you don't always think of. You just assume that if 10 different vehicles are stamped "6800 GVW" then they are all equally competent at the job. That's just not the case. The Titan and Tundra are far superior to the B2200's of years past, but they don't have the years of experience at heavy trucks like the American's do.

Avoid the Dodge unless you're going heavy duty with a Cummins. I know I'll ruffle some feathers, but fit and finish, quality of materials, and reliability are not their current strong suit.

GM is still having some growing pains on the reliability front, but for the most part its little annoying stuff, not stuff that will strand you on the side of the road... usually.

If you're like 94% of the truck owners, you don't buy a truck because you need one, you buy it to haul a couch once a year and maybe take some trash to the dump. If that's the case, do the Japanese. It will be more than capable of handling nearly anything you throw at it. They are very new to the heavy duty truck scene and still have a few things they haven't ironed out yet, but very good trucks.

If you're like the 6% who actually use a truck as a truck and frequently take it to GVW, buy an F150 or a Silverado and deal with their American flaws. While you're at it, do yourself a favor and test drive a 250/2500. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at their ride and manners. You'll also be rewarded with greatly increased maintenance intervals on wear items, and 100k miles from now when your F250 doesn't rattle, creak, and whine like your neighbor's F150, you'll be glad you did. Just a thought.

Above all, be realistic with your expectations of a truck. I really need one in my life, but I don't have one cause I don't like them. The one I did have wasn't enough for me because I overestimated its abilities. Many times its the other way around. People buy their Lightning truck, never put so much as a mattress in the bed, then complain about the 13 MPGs.

Good luck with your decision.

[curtis73]

Originally Posted by Euro19

IS THAT RIGHT?

I agree with it, although not quite as strongly. Dodge is still using their fourth revision of the A518 transmission which is a 727 Torqueflite with an electric overdrive smacked on the front. They are somewhere between inadequate and terrible. They're getting better, but for 20 years they've been band-aiding an ailing design when a clean slate would have saved them billions of dollars.

Take a look at the super cheap plastic interior with wide gaps. The dashboard in my friend's 2500 ram squeaks more than a styrofoam cooler. The carpet is so cheap that you can see the rows of really short piling and see the backing between them. After 12,000 miles, her carpet started wearing through at her heel.

The engines are fine, but Chrysler never spent much time on updating head port designs from the 60s and they are incredibly inefficient. The new Hemi is catching up, but still years behind Chevy's LS1-based truck motors. A good example was outlined in a Car Craft a couple years ago. They took a Dakota with a 5.8L, added headers, intake, chip, exhaust, and actually lost torque and only gained 15 hp. The heads were just so restrictive to the point of inefficiency that it also contributed to worse observed gas mileage on this test truck.

This was a topic of conversation at a recent meeting we had at SEMA; Dodge needs to realize that they are selling trucks based on 30 years of "redneck loyalty" (no offense... that doesn't mean that rednecks buy Dodges, the redneck word refers to the type of loyalty here) and they won't have that around anymore, especially now with Toyota and Nissan dabbling in the light truck market. They were shopping for a new diesel for three years to just make a change, but then Cummins stepped up and changed their diesel enough to renew the contract for Dodge.

GM went through a similar time between about '80 and '94. Some of the junk they put on the road was frightening, but it really didn't hurt sales that much. Had things continued that way, they would have lost the whole kit and caboodle. Ford has just been consistently satisfactory with a brief dip into mediocre between 85 and 91.

I think the next 10 years is going to be very exciting. The Automotive world is merging, and at the same time, the vehicles are diversifying.

That's my Dodge rant. Give them a few years to let more MBZ technology to trickle down to the trucks and things will even out.

[G35XAndTrailBlazer]

Chevy and GMC guy. Like those Sierras and Sivlerados.

[v10_viper]

Curtis has had some excellent posts in here that I would have to agree highly on.

For me I'd pick either the Sierra Denali or Nissan and I'm pretty much a Chevy guy. Those are basically my needs right there with those two trucks. The Nissan wont just haul, it'll haul ass and it's looks are different but I like them not to mention I'd rather have that fucker off road than the Power Wagon. The Sierra Denali should be able to tow more than what it's rated at no problem and it seems like a pretty impressive truck. Otherwise a 3/4 ton Chevy with a Vortech 6000 or 8100 would do me just fine too seeming as how we have one. The Ram's look sweet and they got that in your face attitude but the Hemi doesn't do it for me anymore, although a 3/4 or 1 ton with the Cummins would kick some serious ass I'm wondering if the new Duramax's might be better. I mean for hauling if your gonna be hauling an assload of weight can you really beat the Duramax with an Allison?? I'm not even gonna touch Ford, although their new Superduty's do impress me, I'm just not for em.

[Ground Rat]

I love my pickup.

[Rakshas]

Dodge ram- Love the Hemi and the styling, rest is pretty meh.

F-150- New one is great, but there is a better choice.

Gmc Sierra- Denali Pickup, Beast the hell out of every other truck, Hands down.

Tundra- Can we even call this a truck?

Titan- Ugly as hell.

[DVS LT1]

Here's props on the thread - very nicely done!

The GM(C) camp looks like nothing new, might as well buy a used 1997 model... and the interior still sucks,

The Hemi Ram is totally badass (does the sporty version count for this comparo??), but I've never been big on the style. Besides, I'd be too tempted to lower and convert a Ram into a street racing truck - and if I bought a truck it would be to do some serious work and not goof around (last thing I need is another expensive toy!),

I've heard nothing but great things about the new Tundra - the Japanese companies are finally waking up and realising NOBODY over here wants a real pickup truck without a V8!!! The Tundra looks nice and has got power, but a 32-valve DOHC engine in a truck? No thanks, do you have any idea how much gas that thing would be capable of going through (especially when speeding on the freeway, stuck in the high RPM's...) I know I'd screw myself with a DOHC V8 truck,

As for the Nissan I think the style is kinda weird, don't know too much about the truck to be honest (or Nissan). Again, a 32 valver in a pickup truck? Its strange because twin cam engines are usually higher RPM/higher HP engines, and in a truck you'd want the kind of low RPM torque that a good olde' pushrod V8 would give you. But 379 ft/lbs!!?? What's that all about!

I like the Ford's. They've changed the style enough to look like a brand new truck while still looking like a Ford pickup. To be honest I'm blown away by the interior, I think its amazing. Such a nice truck - and what other company has the balls to do a comparison right on its own website eh!? Ford's got my vote, its well priced too.

Originally Posted by curtis73

If you're going for a reliable truck, do the Japanese... I lean toward the Toyota for ultimate reliability...

Personally I don't agree with this statement. 10, maybe 5 years ago - OK. Quality is not that big of a disparity as it once was. Its no different than people who still think SONY is the cats ass in TV's (such a false and OLD sense of security). I don't see how a Toyota truck built in TX or IN would be constructed with better care or skill than a Ford built in MI. Any quality difference would have to lie in production technology or OEM parts. As far as parts go, the Japanese companies may or may not use better quality components, but one thing is certain - you're going to pay more to fix a Toyota than a Ford. So you'd better be ready to overhaul that pricey twin-cam V8 all in one shot, as opposed to servicing the cheaper OHV/OHC V8 a number of times (at least the last scenario lets you spread the payments out over time lol). Technology again may or may not be the difference, but I happen to think practical pickup truck utility is not rocket science. While the Japanese are now finally building "solid" trucks by virtue of years of trial and error, so too have the Big3 now refined their truck chassis to be more driveable and liveable (I don't think either camp is quite where they want to be, but they're now much closer to each other in every respect).

EDIT: I'm not trying to start a fight (and I don't even want to debate it! lol), thats just what I believe. Besides, you can find stories and statistics to support any claim... the ones closest to me is what I go by.

[RedLightning]

Well im biased and picked the F-150. But heck I would have picked it even before I owned a Ford. The interior is great, and it is just very handsome. The only problem is from what ive heard the transmision is geared too much towards fuel economy then performance, hence its bad performance times. But of course then you could get a Lightning.

I must say the dodge is the most overrated truck, especially the "hemi". Id much rather have a titan then dodge, both are ugly but atleast one is pretty quick.

[TatII]

Originally Posted by DVS LT1

Personally I don't agree with this statement. 10, maybe 5 years ago - OK. Quality is not that big of a disparity as it once was. Its no different than people who still think SONY is the cats ass in TV's (such a false and OLD sense of security). I don't see how a Toyota truck built in TX or IN would be constructed with better care or skill than a Ford built in MI. Any quality difference would have to lie in production technology or OEM parts. As far as parts go, the Japanese companies may or may not use better quality components, but one thing is certain - you're going to pay more to fix a Toyota than a Ford. So you'd better be ready to overhaul that pricey twin-cam V8 all in one shot, as opposed to servicing the cheaper OHV/OHC V8 a number of times (at least the last scenario lets you spread the payments out over time lol). Technology again may or may not be the difference, but I happen to think practical pickup truck utility is not rocket science. While the Japanese are now finally building "solid" trucks by virtue of years of trial and error, so too have the Big3 now refined their truck chassis to be more driveable and liveable (I don't think either camp is quite where they want to be, but they're now much closer to each other in every respect).

then you know nothing about operations management. just becasue a japanese factory in american doesn't mean it will have the same quality standards as american companys. the work ethics and quality control is much much much higher in a japanese run american factory then that of a american company.

example: in the honda plant in the states, there are tons of managers that over sees each assembly line, and tons of managers that over sees those manager. if they see as little as one slip up, they have the power to stop the entire assembly line to correct the problem. they will spot defects before they get a chance to make it past. they also have a progress chart and goal charts at the top of every line to show you if your on target or not.

just becasue american's work to assemble the japanese cars doesn't mean it will be built like an american car. the difference in quality and workman ship is as different as night and day.

example: i'm a hugh nissan fan but once nissan started building cars in america, they're quality went way south. probrably poor quality controls, and cheaper parts for interiors. now compare that to a american built honda, or a american built toyota the quality far surpasses to the american built nissans.

also american's hardly ever updates their models. they've been running on the same engines forever, their chassis technology hardly ever gets upgraded, and their ergonomics suck balls. its about time that they finally figured out to build a car right. so i highly doubt that american's really spend a hugh amount of money on R & D for trucks considering that fact that they were hardly different. in fact i find that american's are finally getting up to date rather then leading the industry.

i mean the chevy trucks were still using freaking TBI until the mid 90's!!!! the japanese haven't touch that since the late 80's, and their interiors are still rubbish. ever been in a cadillac escalade? pure trash. even the interior trim aren't properly trimed, so it still rough edges. the whole dash is one hollow piece of plastic. i can go on forever, or how about the first gen Lincoln navi? that thing was basically a F-150 with leather interior. again, pure trash, and i'm surprise people actually pay money for these cars. its amazing.

i drive plenty of cars a week. i drive around 100 cars a week. and everytime i hop into an american car, it never ceases to amaze me at how behind they are.

i honestly don't like import vs. domestic, i respect american sport cars, such as the vette, the viper, and esp the ford GT which is now my favorite car of the year. however don't ever compare standard ordinary american cars such as the impala to a honda accord. their not even in the same class in terms of technology, workmenship, quality, performance etc etc.

[Rakshas]

Originally Posted by TatII

then you know nothing about operations management. just becasue a japanese factory in american doesn't mean it will have the same quality standards as american companys. the work ethics and quality control is much much much higher in a japanese run american factory then that of a american company.

example: in the honda plant in the states, there are tons of managers that over sees each assembly line, and tons of managers that over sees those manager. if they see as little as one slip up, they have the power to stop the entire assembly line to correct the problem. they will spot defects before they get a chance to make it past. they also have a progress chart and goal charts at the top of every line to show you if your on target or not.

just becasue american's work to assemble the japanese cars doesn't mean it will be built like an american car. the difference in quality and workman ship is as different as night and day.

example: i'm a hugh nissan fan but once nissan started building cars in america, they're quality went way south. probrably poor quality controls, and cheaper parts for interiors. now compare that to a american built honda, or a american built toyota the quality far surpasses to the american built nissans.

also american's hardly ever updates their models. they've been running on the same engines forever, their chassis technology hardly ever gets upgraded, and their ergonomics suck balls. its about time that they finally figured out to build a car right. so i highly doubt that american's really spend a hugh amount of money on R & D for trucks considering that fact that they were hardly different. in fact i find that american's are finally getting up to date rather then leading the industry.

i mean the chevy trucks were still using freaking TBI until the mid 90's!!!! the japanese haven't touch that since the late 80's, and their interiors are still rubbish. ever been in a cadillac escalade? pure trash. even the interior trim aren't properly trimed, so it still rough edges. the whole dash is one hollow piece of plastic. i can go on forever, or how about the first gen Lincoln navi? that thing was basically a F-150 with leather interior. again, pure trash, and i'm surprise people actually pay money for these cars. its amazing.

i drive plenty of cars a week. i drive around 100 cars a week. and everytime i hop into an american car, it never ceases to amaze me at how behind they are.

i honestly don't like import vs. domestic, i respect american sport cars, such as the vette, the viper, and esp the ford GT which is now my favorite car of the year. however don't ever compare standard ordinary american cars such as the impala to a honda accord. their not even in the same class in terms of technology, workmenship, quality, performance etc etc.

I see what you're tyring to say, But the americans are learning about japanese technique and are incorporating it into their own plants now.

The new AAI Plant where ford builds its mustang is a also a Mazda plant, Ford uses japanese style construction methods with it's new vehicles.

The americans don't update their engines very often as they really don't need to, The LS1 is essentially using 30 year old concepts, but it makes more power and gets better gas mileage than japanese V8's.

And as Dvs Stated earlier, Gm/DC pushrod motors make more torque down low than a peakier 4 valve setup.

The escalades interior isn't exactly horrible, but I agree it does need a new design.

The company making the most progress IMO is ford, The truck is better looking than it's foreign counterparts, Has a stronger, more useable engine than the toyota, Shoudl be fairly reliable, and has a far better interior than either the tundra or the titan, The titans interior is covered in cheap plastic, and the tundras looks like a giant plastic blob.

The americans are making headway on their sedan market as well, The new Ford 500, Chrysler 300C, and Cadillac STS sedans all have very nice interiors and styling, we should see a trickle down effect over the next couple of years until all american sedans have at least decent interiors, but quiet frankly, Japanese interiors aren't exactly mind blowing either, IMO the germans make by far the best interiors.

[TatII]

i agree with what your saying 100%, however what the american's still are failing to do is to inject some sportiness to their every day type vehicles. the ford 500 is a nice new little car, but its just too boring of a performer. the way the american's see their average fleet is basically a point A to B car. the japanese companys like honda incorperates handling to every vehicle, and nissan injects alot of hp for almost every vehicle in their line up. the only exception is toyota whos claim to fame is their reliable and their fuel economy ( which is pretty lame if you ask me ).

the new american cars that i've driven such as the malibu maxx and hte chrysler 300C, are leaps beyond their predecessors, however its still not quit japanese standard yet. compare the fit and finish of a accord to a 300c and you'll see what i mean. also the materials used on those cars are still on the cheap side.

[DVS LT1]

Originally Posted by TatII

quality control is much much much higher in a japanese run american factory then that of a american company...
don't ever compare standard ordinary american cars such as the impala to a honda accord...

Well at least you're saying "Japanese run american factory" - I just can't get over when people say "Japanese" built car or "American" built car. Frankly, a lot of our popular models are actually "Canadian" build cars - Acura EL & Civic's are hatched in Honda's Aliston ON plant.

And whose comparing an Impala to an accord? I've only been referring to trucks. But I like what you said about America finally getting up to date as opposed to leading the industry in cars - thats exactly what I think of the Japanese trucks.

[nissan350ztt]

Originally Posted by blindside.AMG

Dodge Ram without a second thought. I'm obviously Dodge bias since I own a Dakota and also a Mopar fan. But it just seems like a general public tends to lust after the Ram more than the competition. It's also got the style, performance, and reliability that I want.

The Titan would be a good competitor except it's so fucking ugly. Plus, no diesel option.

Nissan guys can argue the V8 comparo but nothing beats a Dodge Ram 3500 with the Cummins diesel. End of story.

Didn't he say only 150/1500/base-level models??? That throws the 3500 out of the question.


BTW, this is Nissan's first full-size truck, not too bad imo. I voted for Nissan Titan, even though my dad has an '03 Chevy Silverado 2500HD Duramax, LT, 4x4, 4 door. My choices would be 1.) Nissan Titan, 2.) Ford F150 (love the styling for this year), 3.) Chevy Silverado, 4.) Dodge Ram, 5.) Toyota Tundra. I've rode in a Silverado and Ram, the Ram hardly had any room for the rear passengers (4-door).

[emokid15]

I picked the F-150. My second choice would of been the Titan ive heard alot thats its strong. It does have the 5.6 L thats good for Nissan. I would just pick those 2.