Bit of a "eye-opener" for me today.........

[Purpura Delujo]

I'd like to see more old OOP kits being remolded rather then new cars all together, it's not like the companies actually threw the moldings out they just put them somewhere to make room for others over time.
My vote goes for reissues of kits like MPC and old school Tamiya, or maybe they could double the amount of molds for the popular models which are always out of stock, like most of the VIP series from Aoshima.
It made my 2004 complete when I heard Revell-Monogram is reissuing the 1960 Impala hardtop lowrider in Jan.

[Mustangman25]

I absolutley agree with the above...Tamiya put out a bunch of new armor and plane kits last year, and only a handful of car kits. From what I've read, liscensing costs are a big reason for this. Almost all military subjects require no lisencing because the 1:1's are owned by the government, where as all car kits have to be lisenced, etc. Just my two cents.

[Chuck Kourouklis]

While I have to agree that the diabolical, life-long challenge of a shiny, scale paint job is something no military modeler will ever have to face, I don't know if I'd be so quick as to say that military modeling is easier - at least, not at the (I)PMS level.

Many of the military guys I've seen are so anal, they need a year's supply of stool-softener just to deburr their parts. And research, man - if your contest plane doesn't have just the exact federal-standard shade of zinc chromate in its bomb bay, you're disqualified, ostracized, excommunicated, and screwed seven ways from Sunday.

There's a reason we call 'em "rivet-counters".

Trumpeter is a little hitchy with their cars right now, but they've come into their own on military subjects. They got this 900-piece model of the USS Nimitz... 900 pieces on a battle ship, oh yes, I read that and wept. And you'd better believe it was our military brethren hurling their impacted feces at anything a micron off in dimension that prodded Trumpeter's metamorphosis into the Chinese Tamiya it is rapidly becoming - because there's a MARKET for their goods.

The whole car-modeling thang is the same matter of economics, pure and simple. Just six scant years ago, AMT started a three-year run of tooling so aggressive - we're talking some fifteen newly-tooled kits - that you had to wonder when the bottom was going to drop out in the instant-gratification, diecast-metastasized landscape of the U S market.

Sure enough, Racing Chumpions swept in, cleaned house at AMT, and capitalized on the profit center of the company: ERTL Pot Metal, which now enjoys an ever-present ubiquity in drug stores and gas stations not unlike that of plastic car model kits some forty years ago. And lest Polar Lights generate too many new subjects for me and other scribes to review in 2005, The Chumps have extended the same courtesy to that scrappy little company. A sure bet like the new Ford GT, and an absolute no-brainer like the new Mustang? Announced for a January release in October. GONE today (along with the staff at Polar Lights), thanks to "soft preorders".

In the meantime, who's to say just why it is that Tamiya, Fujimi, Trumpeter, and other foreign manufacturers can forge ahead as the Trilateral Diecast Commission picks off our domestic plastic manufacturers one by one? Is it a cultural difference? Is there a steadier influx in the youth market in Europe and Japan consuming new car models? Do the Japanese manufacturers cater better to young enthusiasts worldwide?

Have the asian manufacturers had either the wisdom or good fortune not to have to depend on preorders from big-box stores? Have the domestic manufacturers - with one notable exception - simply become too risk-averse? Are they too misdirected in their product focus? Or are they simply reacting to the realities of a U S market?

Only Revell-Monogram, with its canny mix of diecast kits, cleverly modified reissues, and carefully reasoned new releases, seems to offer any positive prospects for the future among domestic companies. In case you haven't heard, the inmates have taken over the asylum in Northbrook, Illinois.

Will they give the lie or prove the rule to this whole notion of Wal-Mart dictating the product line?

We'll have to see.

Oh, and as for that other favorite issue of mine, LICENSING: let's just say that my 1:1 ride has an appetite for big, sticky performance radials - the profits on which Goodyear will never enjoy from me again.

Wonder how many kits would have generated the equivalent in licensing fees, had R/M not told them to go pound it sideways...

[ZoomZoomMX-5]

Revell...nice kits, worth the wait. Too bad they're 2-3 years behind schedule on nearly everything.

The net result for anyone who wants a Revell kit of a modern car? It's a used car by the time the Revell kit is on the shelf.

The Focus SVT that was released this year depicts an '02 model car. They allegedly have WRX and Acura RSX diecast kits coming, probably also '02 model year models. Here it is the '05 model year, and the '03 Viper still isn't here, and was delayed yet again. The '05 Mustang was announced in September of '03 and was pushed back to a September of '05 release. If we're lucky...they always delay them further closer to the release date. I'm sure Ford will have some very tasty update to keep the Mustang GT fresh, yet Revell's kit won't reflect it. The Viper, C6 Corvette and the '05 Mustang GT should have been available NOW. Revell's never going to catch up without some serious house cleaning (like a two-year moratorium on new announcements). The glimmer of hope that was Polar Lights was snuffed by the usual RC2 blunder which wasn't exactly unexpected. The US companies are embarrasingly behind the curve in comparison w/the Asian companies.

[primera man]

Thanks for all your feedback so far

[Chuck Kourouklis]

My pleasure, Primera. I'd say "Our", but I don't want to speak for anyone else...

Originally Posted by ZoomZoomMX-5

Revell...nice kits, worth the wait. Too bad they're 2-3 years behind schedule on nearly everything.

The net result for anyone who wants a Revell kit of a modern car? It's a used car by the time the Revell kit is on the shelf.

The Focus SVT that was released this year depicts an '02 model car. They allegedly have WRX and Acura RSX diecast kits coming, probably also '02 model year models. Here it is the '05 model year, and the '03 Viper still isn't here, and was delayed yet again. The '05 Mustang was announced in September of '03 and was pushed back to a September of '05 release. If we're lucky...they always delay them further closer to the release date. I'm sure Ford will have some very tasty update to keep the Mustang GT fresh, yet Revell's kit won't reflect it. The Viper, C6 Corvette and the '05 Mustang GT should have been available NOW. Revell's never going to catch up without some serious house cleaning (like a two-year moratorium on new announcements). The glimmer of hope that was Polar Lights was snuffed by the usual RC2 blunder which wasn't exactly unexpected. The US companies are embarrasingly behind the curve in comparison w/the Asian companies.

Too true, too true.

But for now, on the domestic scene, it looks like these guys are IT...

[rsxse240]

wow, that is some reading there.....
I agree with you all. model cars "take to long" in this micro wave world, is the mentality of my son, however he sees the benifit of creating something from that which did not exist, so I am inclined to believe that he will inherit the appreciation for a one off over the manufactured "customs".....and that raises another thing....how can they call it custom if there are 50 of the same car on the same shelf?

military models are very popular for another reason, it is a recognition of national pride. Our brothers fathers, uncles cousins sister, moms, and grandparents all have/are/will serve in the military, and they can bring back fond memories of their times of being in the services, I know I have built my share of hummers, and despise the "civillian" versions (specially the H-2)

I forgot where I was going with this, but, next time you are at your LHS pick up a copy of Fine Scale Modeler, and look at the detail and effort put into some of these builds, they are gemmerally much more intricate than I could ever accomp;ish on one of my car builds.

[boab]

i originally started out modelling with the military kits, like evry other kid, i liked the idea of a soldier, so when i was able, i got into modelling military things... planes, tanks, jeeps, bikes, soldiers, i even tried diaramas (sp?)

then as i got older and got interested in cars, my modelling habits turned to the motor side. since taking up car modelling i've done kits from race cars to road cars, nothing else now

no doubt when i get older my intrests will change again, perhaps boats or planes. i think that the general "middle age" modellers are more drawn to the things they can relate to, such as planes, trains, boats and cars, wheras the "younger generation" and the "older generation" are more drawn towards military. the younger ones for the "romance" of it all, and the older ones perhaps due to some service. i know if i served in the forces, i'd like to build a tank i drove, or a tank that shot at me!!

i agree that the choice of car kits is pretty poor compared to all other kinds of modelling, but you have to look at some of the kits the other modellers get... how many tanks are exactly the same except for the livery? same with planes and trains???

i'm one of the lucky ones, i managed to get a kit of my car, i had a kit of my last car, but have no chance of finding a kit of any car i had before that, but you can get a kit of every tank that ever was, every army jeep that ever was, every air force plane that ever was, why not every car that ever was?

1/24th austin allegro anyone?

i understand that the big companys work to a demand, if there's no demand, there's no model, but surley most of us buy a model as an impulse! yeah some hunt that specific model, but the majority of time, it's rummage through whats in the store and take whatever takes your fancy. if i wnt into the local shop and saw a model of some old banger that my grandad once drove, chances are i'd buy it... for a laugh!

as things stand though, we'll all just have to bite the bullit and get on with it, can you slam a tank and put a set of 20" chromes on it? would it look good with a huge rear wing and some "go faster" stripes?

with the possibility of modification, our choices are endless!

my tuppence worth
boab

[blueboost]

Originally Posted by Rtuned

Also...I must say this too.
Car and bike models are the hardest among all modeling field, the eaisest must be military(except modern aircraft). You know when you drybrushing your tanks and armor and accidentaly broke some parts, you will put it as "battle-damage", but for cars and bikes, can you said the same thing? No of course, most modeler whose fell into the car modeling usually will not last more than 3 months, then they will drift off to either die-cast or R/C. To master the techique of automobile is not a easy thing to say. We invest on good tools, search for reference, look for detail and etching parts(not alot company do etching and is quite limited, not like military...there's plenty of them.) and also we have to earn the experience in building by mistake and discussion in AF or any modeling forums. Most people will think it takes too long to master a car modeling skill.
Sad to said, I owned a hobby shop and I do find that not alot of people in these days build scale car models. Mainly are those whose watch some FnF or Initial D and want to have one that they like but they had been putting their expertation way too high. When standard is not what they expect they give up and something they cursed on the hobby shop owner for lying them. I think they have too many choice in find their hobbies. Only left "Us" to secure this hobby for the rest of our life. I try to promote it but not effect as like what 'malsheem' had said....haiz!
Rtuned

I agree with this too Rtuned, which go's along with my thought that, why would a model company want to take the chance with new product when your customer base is so here and there. I mean look at the products that are being put out lately by the U.S. manufacturers- the import cars with the F&F out of date bodykits. Sales numbers from real enthusiast model builders will be fleeting

good thread

[tonioseven]

That's why I buy so many kits; I have a nice stash of whatever I want to build whenever I want to build it. I suggest new ideas to the model companies via my non-read emails and just pray that I find stuff I'd eventually like to build. If they choose to listen to us one day, then fine. If not, oh well I'll just go to my stash and create.

[willimo]

Originally Posted by Rtuned

Also...I must say this too.
Car and bike models are the hardest among all modeling field, the eaisest must be military(except modern aircraft). You know when you drybrushing your tanks and armor and accidentaly broke some parts, you will put it as "battle-damage", but for cars and bikes, can you said the same thing?

I have to take issue with this comment. I would not say that one is any harder or easier than the other. I think it's just what the modeller makes of it. For some modellers "battle damage" might be acceptable, but to others, it may be not. I am sure military modellers are out there saying "Military models are the hardest among all the modeling field, the easiest must be cars and bikes. You know when you're scratchbuilding a part and it doesn't match the prototype exactly, you will put it as 'custom.'"

Personally, my goal is to put as much diligence into my model car construction as those armour folks put into their tanks. They detail their models exquisitely. I want to detail my cars with this tachometer that is exactly like an Autometer guage. If I make a racecar, and there is a wire here on the 1:1, I want there to be a wire there on the model. Can you imagine what would happen if you had the wrong electronic gunsite module on the tip of the tank's barrel? It if was slightly out of shape, size or color? It's not custom! There is no such thing in the miltary world. But if my the vent in my body kit is a little bit too tall or a little to square, well, it's Buddy Club style instead of Buddy Club replica.

It's all in how detailed and precise as you want to be. Some will be happy witht he wrong gunsite, some will be happy with a custom body kit. Some will want an exact miniature. How hard is your chosen model venue? As hard as you make it.

[malsheem]

I can understand the model companies going after products in high demand and with high potential profits. That's how a business should be run, but I think the model car segment is overlooked because it isn't seen as profitable as other segments. That doesn't mean that it can't be, just need to look harder or be more innovative.

Some examples. While I don't particularly the FNF movies, I think it was a good idea to release the kits, even though they aren't good kits. The movies did decent and had a good amount of interest. They should have continued it since they had some better cars in the second movie. Revell did good releasing their tuner models to take advantage of the growing interest in the sport compact tuner segment. I like the idea of tie-ins to other items that automotive enthusiasts would be into. At least you know you're hitting a group that has interest in relating things. The high interest now in D1, JGTC in the US. I think Aoshima did well with the release of their D1 series cars. With the JGTC coming to the US in a week, maybe some more JGTC sets would be good to try and leverage this increased interest stateside. Why there hasn't been a tie-in to Gran Turismo I don't know. I mean, they got Nike involved and what the hell do shoes have to do with racing? And I'm sure that there are more things like this out there that could be used to increase the car modeling interest.

Another thing that should be addressed is simplicity. I know, we all get upset when we see anything other than an enthusiast level, perfectly accurate kit. We need more simplistic kits. Tamiya's kits with the chassis as one molded piece are good. Same with the die-cast chassis on the JGTC Z even though we hate it. This will encourage more beginners to try car modeling out. With the ever-decreasing attention spans and the need for instant gratification of today's youth, it'll be hard enough to sell them on building something that takes time to do right over just buying something pre-made.

Now I don't have any business experience or market data to back these claims, and maybe the companies have looked into these and decided it's not worth their investment, or maybe they just don't want to. Anyway, probably just rambling, but that's just my thoughts.

[Layla's Keeper]

Military models are precise and detailed because military modelers have always expected them to be precise and detailed. For years, military modelers have railed against inaccurate, poorly done kits and then backed up their word by avoiding the kits.

No matter the subject matter's exclusivity or desirability. Military modelers WILL NOT BUY POOR KITS. This is why Revell-Monogram backed out of the armor market a long time ago. Nobody bought their kits, even at reduced price.

However, we auto modelers are incredibly forgiving. We bemoan poor kits by AMT, Lindberg, Revell, Fujimi, Aoshima, Airfix, Heller, Arii, Esci, Revell of Germany, Heller, and the like BUT WE STILL BUY THEM.

Revell released a great 1964 Impala kit two years ago. Brilliant chassis detail, good lowrider option parts, good engine, accurate in every way. But do you realize that the beancounters within Revell had the perfect reason to kill that great kit with this simple statement:

"You know, the builders are still buying AMT's 40 year old tooling of the 1964 Impala. Why should we risk losing tooling budget if they don't demand a better kit than that and if we'll only get a portion of the AMT sales instead of cornering the market with a different subject?"

So long as we're permissive of flaws that military modelers abhor, we'll never receive the same level of treatment as military modelers. We accept wheels that are the wrong diameter, options that are cartoonish and don't represent real options or accessories, incomplete decals, incorrect chassis, metal axles going through engine blocks, visible interior tubs, hollow seatbacks, and the list goes on and on.

Auto modelers, stop accepting the scraps that are tossed at you. We're treated like second class citizens in the scale modeling world because we act as if we don't care.

And, by the way, many aircraft and armor kits are modified reissues, usually just new decal sets with some new sprues of parts thrown in to make a different version. For instance, Hasegawa gets a lot of life out of kits of planes like the F4 Phantom and the F-16 Falcon by doing decal variants of different squadrons and nations.

[Rtuned]

Please don't misunderstand me on 'Military subject'. I myself build those too, mainly on Russian and most guns(Leopord, Karl, pak, etc).
Tamiya did not really produced it very detail but because this job is leave to after-market like Aber and Eduard. The etching is so detail that basically you doesn't need any wiring (except bigger than 1/35). Now Eduard even come in pre-painted etching. Tamiya had to brush up their products to fight mainly the China and Hong Kong brands like Trumpeter and Dragon. Their product is very detail and cheap too, in my SG Dragon tanks are mostly lower than $18, Leopard is consider the most expensive but to compare to Azumit resin Leopord.... is really big different. More and more military fans choose Dragon, Trumpeter and AFV(Taiwan), if Tamiya not going to do something, they will loose a place in market.
There are also lots of War Museum in the world that you could see the damage and detail. But really, how many auto museum in the world? Like LeMans, lots of the detail or even reference is very hard to find on web too.
Anyway, Consumers versus businessmen...is just like asking 'Which one come first, egg or chicken' I think manufacture do have their reason for release more or not on different model subject. Fujimi do released lots of models every year, but most of them is from 1 new mold and have dozen of different box art... that's not a decent thing that car modelers would buy too, so Tamiya release just a few models, but is excellent work in every way. We still buy it....as long it does not come in pre-painted body plus diecast chassis will do.

[lovesmith05]

I just had to resurrect this thread when I read it. I was at a bookstore today, and I thought, "this place is pretty big, they should have some good modelling books". I searched for a while and found nothing, so I asked a girl at the desk. She looked in the computer for car models and found nothing. Then she asked, "Do you mean like toy cars?" I said nevermind. I even remember when Wal-Mart had nearly a full isle of models. Now they have like three square feet of Testors crap and 4-5 model kits that are snap-tight. We are a dying breed I guess.