Fun Daily Driver: S13 240sx or E30 325e or i

[CrzyMR2T]

i forgot what magazine it was, maybe it was consumer report, but the newer bmw's didnt have a good reliability rating. like the 2000-2004 model yrs. im sure the reliability is still not that bad, as long as you take care of it.

[curtis73]

well, its also pretty darn relative. If you ask a Rover owner about how well their discovery holds up in reliability, they'll tell you its great, but consumer reports rated them exactly 177% worse than average in reliability. I would say that 250k miles with only timing belt changes, oil changes, and one spark plug change is pretty darn reliable for me in my older 1987 BMW. I did some other things like a fuel pressure regulator and the previous owner did some O2 sensors and all the other emissions equipment, but for all that mileage and under $1000 cash outlay, I'd call it pretty good.

[curtis73]

...Also, the title of this thread is "fun daily driver."

I think the amount of maintenance to a BMW is highly inflated by non-BMW owners. I also think that if you're buying parts at the "holier than thou" parts counters, you are right that they cost a ton. With internet mail order parts, most of my E30 parts are cheaper than my wife's Tercel parts. Then, working on an E30 is no more difficult (in fact I find it easier) than any other car. They thought of everything. Even the way the oil filter drains to prevent messes and the way the brake pads fit into the calipers for easy changing. The layout of maintenance items makes it very easy to do. BMW has just capitalized on the fact that most Bimmer owners don't do their own maintenance and they have purposely mystified it. They make maintenance a luxury that rich owners think is better to be done at the dealer.

Let's get past the BMW stereotypes and answer the question. I personally (having owned an E30 and having driven the 240s13 for about a few months) would choose an E30 with 150k long before I would even consider a 240 with 100k. The experience can't be quantified. BMW has taken automotive engineering to its extremes. I get so tired of people saying that, "this car acclerates better, and this one had more power, or this one handles better." I don't care what parameter it is, regardless of the numbers, BMW feels better and puts more smiles on your face.

I stand by my recommendation. If you want a fun car, just get the E30. Its designed to handle, provide a comfortable experience, and its not a souped-up economy car. There I said it.

Mileage is something to consider. I never checked the mileage in my roomate's 240 when I drove it, but my 325iC with a VERY heavy foot in stop and go L.A. traffic, I get 20 mpgs. On the highway at about 70 mph on a good flat stretch of highway I can get as much as 27, but you can't count on that. 24-25 can be expected based on what other owners have said.

If you want some honest, mature counterpoint and a true assessment of the E30's shortcomings and advantages, visit www.bmwe30.net and read through the forums. Ask questions and you'll get mature answers from real e30 techs and enthusiasts from as far as South Africa, Japan, UK, and Australia.

My apologies for my stabs at earlier posts. I understand the dilemna you're facing in your choice, EuroG20, but in my opinion, you can't compare these two vehicles any more than you can compare a Cavalier up to the 240. Granted, the e30 isn't as much of a step up as that example, but they are apples and oranges. The BMW is a driving machine that was engineered from the ground up as an enthusiast vehicle. Although Japan has made several enthusiast vehicles, that is not their typical design goal for most of their vehicles. Reliability in transportation is their strong point. Let's face it; Japan got the electronics genes and the crowded city streets, Germany got the metallurgy genes and the Autobahn. America evidently got the "let's finish this car and grab a beer" genes. Although both of your choices are easily placed in the same basic category with some modifications, it is my strong belief from experience that the BMW will excel in almost every category with the fewest trade offs. The e30 in stock form handles as well as a slightly modified 240 without as much of a stiff ride as the modded 240 would have. When you test drive them, pay close attention to how the road feels throught the steering wheel and how the pedals transfer commands to the car. Maybe you're not at a point where that is of importance to you, but if you are a driving enthusiast, there is no comparison.

If you do maintenance yourself, the e30 is the clear choice. Parts can be delivered to your door the next day for no more money than most Nissan and Toyota parts, and I think you'll find that once you get your hands greasy on one of these cars you'll appreciate the excellence in their engineering. Also, like Dinan M3 said, they'll fail less frequently which balances out the overall cost of maintenance.

If you insist on taking your e30 to a dealer for repairs, just know that it will cost a bit more... OK, a lot more. Find a good independent German repair place, buy your own parts, and you'll not spend more than fixing a 240.

.... and that's not just cause I'm selling my e30

[CrzyMR2T]

i understand steering feel, shifter smoothness and all that, but if you drove the e30 or the e30 m3 to its limit, you ll feel its semi trailing arm suspension characteristics. when you go hard into a corner, and lift off the throttle, the wheel will toe out, and cause it to oversteer more, making it easier to spin out. the e30 m3 is known for its twitchy rear end, and everyone who races these cars know about it. the main reason for this design was for compactness, and cost, not because of performance. just because its bmw doesnt mean it ll perform better, or always feel better, i feel that the s13 240sx will peform, and feel better when put to its limit. the semi trailing arm is an old design, and the multilink suspension is a newer design that performs better, and you ll feel the difference.

heres the article i posted earlier in this thread, it explains more about the e30 rear suspension.

http://www.zvolution.com/Z3Faq/suspe...suspension.htm

[curtis73]

I can respect that counterpoint. That is a good article, by the way.

[snoopyloopysk8a]

I'd say the 240, especially if you plan to mod it. I think $3000 will go farther in mods on a 240 than it would on a BMW simply because there are waaaaay more parts available for it.

[EuroG20]

Well, after much thought and some talking with some E30 owners, I bought a 1990 325i with 110k, perfect interior (with seats from an IS), and a well maintained motor. The road feel and handling are phenomenal for a stock car. I can't wait to get some Eibach Pro Kits and Bilsteins on there!

Curtis 73, you are right about the parts being just as cheap or cheaper than Nissan parts. I knew this beforehand because I have been getting BavAuto and BMP Design catalogues for about a year even though I didn't have a Bimmer until now. Guess I was setting myself up to be a Bimmer owner, lol.

I plan on most of the maintainence myself, unless it involves something that would require a shop (tranny work, internal work, etc).

I've already ordered new plugs, Mahle air filter, Mann oil filter, and a new vaccum hose and intake boot kit from BMP. These will go on sometime this week, at which time one of my friends (E30 owner) is gonna help me do a valve adjustment.

I'm really glad I stepped up and got the E30. I did test drive a 240 and had driven my friend's E30 and there is no comparison. THE E30 IS MORE FUN, HANDS DOWN. Don't get me wrong, the 240 is a great car, but BMWs are driver's cars. The feedback and steering feel are second to none.

As for the handling at the limit, I've tested the car's limits already (in a safe environment of course- empty parking lot) and the car responds well, easy to regain control if you know what you are doing. Yes E30's might have a reputation for a touchy rear end at the limit, but so do 911's, and they are some of the most fun cars on the planet, as long as you know how to drive them.

Thanks to everyone for their advice. Now I'm gonna go drive my car some more!

[DinanM3_S2]

Another win for the bimmer guys :

Enjoy the E30 and come spend some time in the BMW forums.

[curtis73]

Congrats on your E30. Hope it serves you as well as mine serves me

[publicenemy137]

hrrmmm maybe I should sell my 240 and get a BMW shiaza! They are both good cars, apples and oranges. I have never driven an e30 so I can't say anything, but to call a 240 a souped up economy car is stupid. I hate it when ppl generalize cars, like Lexus is a "suped up Toyota." It's a different car, I can call an e30 an old granny car made to be comfortable, but it really comes down to being a different car.

[kman10587]

Another win for the bimmer guys :

Wait, wait, how the hell did the Bimmer guys "win"? Since when is this a competition to see who can get more people to buy the same car as them? That sounds pretty counter-productive and anti-individualistic to me.