Thought this would be of interest.

[werwolf-23]

Originally Posted by Xtreme_098

....you said that and didnt tell me as to WHY its the fatal flaw in my reasoning....its not the UNs land they are building a wall on

Read my post!

[RSX-S777]

Originally Posted by Flatrater

Simple cure for that don't read it! Some peole can't handle the truth.

Problem is, for tou it only seems to be the "truth" when a Republican says it- and lies or propaganda when a Democrat does.

[Flatrater]

Originally Posted by RSX-S777

Problem is, for tou it only seems to be the "truth" when a Republican says it- and lies or propaganda when a Democrat does.

Try again! Both the Republicans and Democrats lie but for the last 10 years or so the democrats are the biggest liars.

Your problem is anything American is a lie!

[RSX-S777]

OK, so then they both lie. I want the liars that create budget surplusses, that don't alienate the other 99 percent of the world and don't increase the deficit by billions and billions of dollars in record time pursuing frivolous, baseless vendettas. Why should I vote for a proven liar when I can give Kerry a shot. He couldn't POSSIBLY do any worse.

[Raz_Kaz]

Originally Posted by RSX-S777

Why should I vote for a proven liar when I can give Kerry a shot. He couldn't POSSIBLY do any worse.

This reminds me of something my friend said.
"Don't want your country to be taken as a joke?....Don't vote for one"

[RSX-S777]

Problem is, I didn't vote for the joke last election and he was still "elected"...

[Raz_Kaz]

Thanks to Florida...although we all know who really should have won

[Flatrater]

Originally Posted by Raz_Kaz

Thanks to Florida...although we all know who really should have won

The Electroal college determines who our next president we be. And Bush won the college so quit your whining, Bush won fair and square.

But if Bush did the same thing as Gore being the sore loser he was and contested every state like Gore did than maybe the election results would be different.

BTW this wasn't the first election where the president lost the popluar vote and won the office.

[2strokebloke]

Yeah, who cares what the people are actually saying - it's all about what the electoral college has to say for them...
Even so Al Gore was a pretty sore loser (if only by a gnats hair).

[DGB454]

Originally Posted by taranaki

Well,by your logic,DGB, they shouldn't be building a wall then.The whole state of Israel is disputed by the fundamentalists

Who are these fundamentalist? The Muslem fundamentalist?

The Israel problem dates back to 1948,when a bunch of foreigners thought they could wade in,upend the existing way of things,impose their own beliefs on the Middle East and maintain the peacre by shooting at anyone who disagreed.

It dates much further back than that actually. The foreigners you speak of once occupied that land.

Those who do not learn from history are condemned to repeat it.Walls don't work,ask the Germans.Before anyone argues that the Berlin wall served an opposite purpose,it didn't.It's core objective was to keep two peoples apart. Reality of the situation is thattoo many people had family and interests on both sides of the wall.Unless Israel intends to eject ever citizen with Palestinian ancestry once the wall is complete,they'll have the same social problems as occurred in Germany.

I agree that walls may not be the answer but they do have the right to build anything they wish to on their land.

Finally,walls will not deter terrorists.They'll just find another way to target Israelis.

I'm sure of that also.

[werwolf-23]

Originally Posted by DGB454

dates much further back than that actually. The foreigners you speak of once occupied that land.

Not really. The vast majority of Jews these days are in fact (80-90%)descended from Khazar Eastern Europeans, and have no ethnic connection to the old Israelites whatsoever. Let's not forget that Judaism is a RELIGION. There are a mass of Ethiopian Jews -- again having no relation to the old Semitic tribe we hear about in the Torah and Bible and Q'Ran and such. The bulk of today's Jews have no ancestral connection with Israel. Their ancestors came from a kingdom in Turkey squished between fanatical Christians and fanatical Muslims, and chose a third way that nobody seemed to hate. The entire kingdom was converted to Judaism by royal decree, and THEY are the majority Jews of today...

I agree that walls may not be the answer but they do have the right to build anything they wish to on their land.

Agreed entirely. The problem is, and this is what the World Court guys said, is that the wall goes way past Israel's land, and hundreds of miles deep into Palestinian land. This is what the UN's got a problem with. If we built a 'security fence' that went a few hundred miles into Mexico or Canada, it'd be the same deal.

[DGB454]

Originally Posted by werwolf-23

Not really. The vast majority of Jews these days are in fact (80-90%)descended from Khazar Eastern Europeans, and have no ethnic connection to the old Israelites whatsoever. Let's not forget that Judaism is a RELIGION. There are a mass of Ethiopian Jews -- again having no relation to the old Semitic tribe we hear about in the Torah and Bible and Q'Ran and such. The bulk of today's Jews have no ancestral connection with Israel. Their ancestors came from a kingdom in Turkey squished between fanatical Christians and fanatical Muslims, and chose a third way that nobody seemed to hate. The entire kingdom was converted to Judaism by royal decree, and THEY are the majority Jews of today...

I will have to respectfully disagree although I am impressed that someone actually knew that.(but then again I have been impressed with a lot of your posts.) Here is a link to an arguement against that belief. Please ignore the "anti semite" comments because I don't believe you are anti semite. http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Cypr...5/Khazars.html

This is just one persons arguement but there are many others that are available by doing a search. Many have the same type of arguement against this beliefe and some have different arguements. I do however like this guys first point so I only put a link to his site.

Agreed entirely. The problem is, and this is what the World Court guys said, is that the wall goes way past Israel's land, and hundreds of miles deep into Palestinian land. This is what the UN's got a problem with. If we built a 'security fence' that went a few hundred miles into Mexico or Canada, it'd be the same deal.

No arguement here. That's why I stated that they have a right to build whatever they want on their land. The land that is disputed or is clearly Palistanian land should not be built on by Isreal.

[werwolf-23]

Originally Posted by DGB454

I will have to respectfully disagree although I am impressed that someone actually knew that.(but then again I have been impressed with a lot of your posts.)

Likewise!

Here is a link to an arguement against that belief. Please ignore the "anti semite" comments because I don't believe you are anti semite. http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Cypr...5/Khazars.html

Hmm -- I'd like to get into this guys' sources -- though I think he's deliberately confusing the hitch-hiking Ashkenazim of Western Europe with the Khazars in Turkey. Anyway, during the article the guy even underlines the whole 'we're a religion, not a race' part:

"Second, even if a group of Khazars abandoned their own homeland and adopted Jewish peoplehood by conversion it still doesn't negate their right to the land of Israel..."

... well, actually, it should...

[DGB454]

Originally Posted by werwolf-23

Likewise!



during the article the guy even underlines the whole 'we're a religion, not a race' part:

"Second, even if a group of Khazars abandoned their own homeland and adopted Jewish peoplehood by conversion it still doesn't negate their right to the land of Israel..."

... well, actually, it should...

I guess it depends on how you look at it. In his first point he states : " Even Moses's wives weren't born Hebrews and Ruth the Moabitess was a convert (see Book of Ruth). Unlike the Germans, membership in the Jewish peoplehood is not based soley on blood. "

I tend to agree to a degree with him. Are all Palastanians purely Palastanians? Have they mixed their race? Does this negate their claim to any of the Palastanian lands? It's hard to find a pure race any more in the world. A group of people who inhabit a land are that lands people reguardless of bloodlines in my opinion.

[werwolf-23]

Originally Posted by DGB454

I guess it depends on how you look at it. In his first point he states : " Even Moses's wives weren't born Hebrews and Ruth the Moabitess was a convert (see Book of Ruth). Unlike the Germans, membership in the Jewish peoplehood is not based soley on blood. "

Convert to a religion, get a chunk of an unbeliever's land! It IS a pretty sweet deal... Except of course again, the guys have no legal claim to an inch of land past their 1948 borders, as the UN points out again and again, and converted Jews swiping up Arab land that neither they nor their ancestors have ever seen is just so wrong...

I tend to agree to a degree with him. Are all Palastanians purely Palastanians? Have they mixed their race? Does this negate their claim to any of the Palastanian lands? It's hard to find a pure race any more in the world. A group of people who inhabit a land are that lands people reguardless of bloodlines in my opinion.

Well, I'm reasonably sure they're called Palestinians because they were the people living in Palestine when the British showed up. The key is, the Palestinians haven't run over the Israelis with tanks and helicopters and jet bombers and taken over Israel...