on par with gt?

[DkShadow]

Guys its the track. Mustangs dont like High Altitudes. At a good track a good driver should have no problems running low 14s in a 99+ GT.

[syr74]

Guys, with all due respect you import guys need to get to the track more or go to a track with better drivers. And,I see a few guys referring to drag strip experience and a whole lot more referring to magazine numbers.

Note: Mag numbers are okay for reference but if you aren't into the scene and don't hit the track from time to time don't talk like you know about what is going on.

I trust Carrrnut and think he has either seen a lot of driver's that suck or a brutal track at high altitude. I am calling B.S. on some of you guys as it is obvious your info came from Car and Driver or Automobile, and despite what you may believe you are not fooling anyone. When someone knows their stuff it shows...end of story.

I have a buddy that has an 03 GT convertible loaded to the gills with an exhaust and filter, nothing else, who has run a low fourteen second quarter so I promise you a 400lb lighter GT coupe can do the same bone stock.

Yes, there are a lot of Mustang's out there that don't quarter as fast as they should...may I point you to the driver? Matter of fact I bet these are the domestic guys who spend more time readin magazines than going out and learning what the real deal is.

Man, if this place had a B.S. filter half of these guys would be banned within 24 hours. Sorry to go off carnnut but I just can't handle some of these guys who don't know anything and don't know that they don't know.

[whtteg]

Originally Posted by syr74

Guys, with all due respect you import guys need to get to the track more or go to a track with better drivers. And,I see a few guys referring to drag strip experience and a whole lot more referring to magazine numbers.

Note: Mag numbers are okay for reference but if you aren't into the scene and don't hit the track from time to time don't talk like you know about what is going on.

I trust Carrrnut and think he has either seen a lot of driver's that suck or a brutal track at high altitude. I am calling B.S. on some of you guys as it is obvious your info came from Car and Driver or Automobile, and despite what you may believe you are not fooling anyone. When someone knows their stuff it shows...end of story.

I have a buddy that has an 03 GT convertible loaded to the gills with an exhaust and filter, nothing else, who has run a low fourteen second quarter so I promise you a 400lb lighter GT coupe can do the same bone stock.

Yes, there are a lot of Mustang's out there that don't quarter as fast as they should...may I point you to the driver? Matter of fact I bet these are the domestic guys who spend more time readin magazines than going out and learning what the real deal is.

Man, if this place had a B.S. filter half of these guys would be banned within 24 hours. Sorry to go off carnnut but I just can't handle some of these guys who don't know anything and don't know that they don't know.

I absolutely hope that this was in no way refering to me!

[syr74]

Originally Posted by whtteg

I absolutely hope that this was in no way refering to me!

I am not trying to start a flame war, but I am also going to call it like it is. C'mon man, get real. A bone stock Integra GSR getting beaten by a 99-up GT by a half a car length? Man, you cannot be serious.

I don't have a problem with the GSR, but at some point in time a bit of realism has to be injected. Assuming both driver's are good drivers an S2000 would be pretty lucky to take a 99-up GT at the strip. An Integra doesn't stand a chance.

In all seriousness, when Honda people begin to wonder where their credibility goes do posts like these not tell anyone something? Somebody qouted 13.3 seconds as the 03 Cobra's 1/4 mile time, how convenient that this number was just published in a Hot Rod magazine test between the Cobra and the STi.

In their tv show the Hot Rod guys also mention that the Cobra was much more difficult to drive well down the 1/4 than the WRX and they felt there was a lot more left in the snake than they got from it. Ironically nobody from the import crowd ever mentions THAT part of the comparison.

From my experience AT THE STRIP Cobra's are easy high to mid twelve second cars on a good day with a good driver...bone freakin stock. 12.8's are fairly common and I have seen a 12.6 with mine own two eyes. A Mach-1 is capable of mid thirteens (13.4-13.5) from what little I have seen of them on the track and GT's can be low 14's all day long...bone stock.

See, my problem is either I live in the land of incredibly gifted drivers, or somebody is just spewing mag numbers. As I said before I have read a lot of what carrnut says, I respect his opinion, and I trust what he says. I think he has seen some really, really bad drivers, but for every Honda guys in here to have never seen better than that either means that most of them don't frequent the strip much if at all.

And before somebody accuses me of "hatin' on imports" the "go fast" guys I hang out with are a very diverse mix. Matter of fact I am the only Ford guy in the bunch. Last time we hung out there was an early ninties MR2 non turbo, two last gen 300ZX TT's, a Mk IV Supra TT, a last gen RX7 TT, and a Z28 SS. All of these guys would pass out if someone told them a bone stock 99-up GT was good for no better than high fourteens....because they bothered to take the time to really find out and know that this ain't so.

[DkShadow]

Ya I believe Carrrnuts track is at 5000+ elavation. No way in hell any car is going to get a good time there unless its forced inducted.

[whtteg]

Originally Posted by whtteg

Yeah I know that magizines are off alot of the time, but from personal experience I have never seen a stock gt of any year make anything better than a 14.7 and that was only one most were in the 14.9 range. The cobra svt's were in the 14.2 range and the new SVT Cobra's were in the 12.8-9 range. I don't doubt that with an K&N fiter charger and exhaust you could easily see low 14's but completely stock come on. I will believe it when I see it.

Maybe some one else was quoting those times that you said but read my post above. It clearly says 12.8-9 for the new SVT cobra. And 14.2 range for the N/A SVT cobras. Come one man I go to the drag strip ever friday that they are having fast friday grudge night. I have also been going to this for 4 yrs now. I think in 4 yrs I would have seen enough cars run to know what to post about. Maybe where you live they are running low 14's but here it has never happened, or I have never seen it. But to say that I need to get to the track more is obserd! And before you think that I am one of those import guys that hates on mustangs, I am not. My first car was a mustang. And I would love to get another one, but I am happy with my integra for now. There are plans in the future for a stang though, so don't think that. But seriously I think you have a problem with honda. Hmm carrrnuttt's post was basically agreeing with mine and yet his post is ok, but mine is questionable? Is it because I drive a honda and he doesn't ?

[syr74]

No, I respect what carrnut says because IMO he has earned a degree of credibility with me. And no, I do not have a problem with Honda's or Honda drivers per se. My fiance drives a 98 Honda Accord that she bought at my reccomendation to prove my point.

Although, I will say (as I have said before) every other Honda 'enthusiast" I run into claims to have beaten a Mustang Cobra with his Civic EX. And, half of them claim the Cobra they smoked was an 03. So yes, I have developed a tendency to take what I hear from Honda guys with a grain of salt initially.

I realize that this is not a "Honda" only issue as I have run into a++'holes that profess loyalty to every auto make. However, some do seem worse than others overall with an example being I cannot stand to be in Bowling Green when the Corvette guys are there. There are some nice guys in the mix but an amazingly high amount are just jerks.

An example of the opposite would be Grand National/GNX guys as I love to be in Bowling Green when they are around. I am no Buick guy, but the cars are awesome, the guys are very knowledgable (More turbo knowledge in one place than should be legal) and they have been courteous and helpful every time I am there.

As a Ford guys I fully understand that I myself am often in an a++hole rich environment among other "enthusiasts" who subscribe to the Ford brand. I will also point out that several supposed Ford enthusiasts are what I refer to as "5 Liter" guys who don't realize Ford ever built a car before the Fox body Mustang, and I don't claim these guys as part of the same Ford enthusiast family as myself. (Don't get me wrong, i love the 5.0L V-8 and the Mustang, this is just a descriptive term I use that I think is self explanitory)

I am not questioning your post in particular, what I AM questioning is that I know several people with low 14 second GT's that are bone stock, but not ONE Honda guy in here has ever seen this and all of them spend time at the track? No way, the odds on that would be astro-friggin-nomical.

I will put more value in what you have said now because you were willing to defend your position and take me to task for what you felt was an attack on your credibility. If you felt as though I was attacking your credibility I sincerely apologize as that was not my intent. I was and will continue attacking the credibility of the idea that not one Honda guy in this thread has seen a Mustang run those and yet they are all supposedly as versed in drag racing as their post's insinuate they are?

I will also point you to the large number of people who were making ridiculous claims as to what the Mustang's quarter like and are now strangely silent. I have a pretty good idea of why so many of them are silent on this issue now.

I said it before and I will stand by it, the Mustang GT is a low 14 second car all day every day...easily. As you and carrnut have never seen this I have to chalk it up to mediocre drivers or carrnut's high altitude track.

[Spectre927]

Are you a lawyer or what? Thats what being educated does. Regardless of whether you're right or not, the demeanor with which you engaged the topic at hand made you really sound knowledgable, and people arent going to doubt an intelligent person as much as they would someone whos posts must be read several times to comprehend(not because of the complexity of the words, but because they cant type worth crap.) Anyways, I simply searched for any 1/4 mile postings of actual GT owners, which wasnt the best idea I'll admit, but in the short time I searched, I had a difficult time telling whether the car was stock or not, and that, Im guessing, is why the times I put were so crappy.(I'll never do it again )

[MexSiR]

Well...let me clear some things up.
An S2000 will smack a Mustang GT. There is no comparison. s2000 run 13.9-14.1 while GTs run 14.6-14.9

Ive ran with a V8 GT 98 mustang at the strip, im at 5000 ft elevation. The mustang beat my civic SiR by 1 and a half car lenght during the whole 1/4 mile track. he ran 16.8 while I ran 17.2. He got me in the launch and then he couldnt pull on me. I dont talk shit...people that know my posts will confirm that. Im not saying a teg is faster than a GT all im sayiing is that from my experience GTs arent really fast, the s2000 eats them.

I have the video, I dont post without evidence, upon request.

[Ricochet]

Joy another Ford vs Honda/Acura war.
I've never seen a stock GT break into 14's, and actually saw one run a 16.1 (now THAT's a shitty driver), so there's my 2¢.

[DkShadow]

Originally Posted by MexSiR

Well...let me clear some things up.
An S2000 will smack a Mustang GT. There is no comparison. s2000 run 13.9-14.1 while GTs run 14.6-14.9

Ive ran with a V8 GT 98 mustang at the strip, im at 5000 ft elevation. The mustang beat my civic SiR by 1 and a half car lenght during the whole 1/4 mile track. he ran 16.8 while I ran 17.2. He got me in the launch and then he couldnt pull on me. I dont talk shit...people that know my posts will confirm that. Im not saying a teg is faster than a GT all im sayiing is that from my experience GTs arent really fast, the s2000 eats them.

I have the video, I dont post without evidence, upon request.

Negative. My GT stock ran 14.3. I have no problem with stock S2000s. My friends 5spd GT with 4.10 gears ran a high 13 second pass on bald shitty tires. Im not sure what my car can do now but well see once the track opens again. If it helps you any, Im dead even with the GT I just mentioned and can keep up with mach 1s up until 80.

Also a 98 GT is in a whole different ball game than a 99 GT. They lack the Heads/cam/intake the 99s have. The 99s would surely put a beating on a 98 GT especially the higher the rpms they go.

Remember, the higher the elavation the worse a naturally aspirated car will run. Hell Id be surprised if any stock car in 4000+ Alt. would run its rated time. If this wasnt true then why is there such a thing as 14 second LS1s and mid-high 13 second Cobras and Z06s? So in essence, its not the cars fault its the shitty ass track you guys are racing at.

[Ricochet]

I'm in Ohio, right next to a great lake...

[MexSiR]

But still DkShadow, I know New GTs are faster, they run mid, high 14s with a decent driver, but s2000s run very high 13s, low 14s. You know half a second is an eternity in 1/4 mile racing.

[syr74]

Well, with all due respect I have been to the strip often enough and have yet to see one driver get a stock S2000 within sniffing distance of a 13 second quarter.

I have heard several claims that this can be done, but have yet to see it done. However, you don't see a ton of S2000's at the strip either...at least not near here.....so.

From my experience both cars are in the low 14's and GT's seem to get there more often with the GT turning times a bit deeper into the 14's than the S2000. I have yet to see a Honda/Acura badged car that can turn a 13 second quarter, stock, aside from the NSX.

No, this is not a Ford/Honda flame war IMO. I would consider this more of a basic-reason versus fantasy-land war.

And no, I am not a lawyer. But, I am a law student.

[civicHBsi91]

but not ONE Honda guy in here has ever seen this and all of them spend time at the track?

*Raises hand*

If you look back i believe i did say that i have seen it, I drive a honda, I'm a honda guy.....