Enginering: German vs. Japanese

[flylwsi]

i noticed that no one mentioned porsche...
hmm...
i like german cars alot...
they dont do much with turbos (except porsche)
and they dont really need to...
they do it with tech and big displacement
and they are definitely designed to ride fukkin sweet at ultra high speeds

not too bad if you ask me...

i do really like my honda though... but i cant afford a german car, or i would have one... ya know:licker:

[Bean Bandit]

I think a comparison of German - Japanese cars isn't realy doable 'cause they have different aims in there production. In Germany quality and safety are #1 on theire priority list. Japanese have very good cars(we own a '90 LS 400, it rocks) but it's not the same thing. Comparing only performance stats isn't the right way IMO. Else you could compare the RX-7 to a Porsche or an M3. The last M3 which wasn't available in the States has about the same performance as the latest RX-7 but they have a totaly different history.
About the copy thing of the Jap I don't care as long they make a good copy:bandit:

[Jay!]

I based this statement on sales units.

Everything I can remember reading said that Lexus has sold more "luxury cars" than BMW or Mercedes in the U.S. in the past few years. The definition of "luxury cars" here and the context it which it was used in the reports I've read may or may not co-incide.

Perhaps I should have said "out-sold."

[flylwsi]

im gonna back ya up, i read that also, that lexus is above the german marques in sales here. and then lincoln and cadillac are like 4 and 5...
but lexus is up there in the group... i read that in autoweek about 2mo's ago:licker:

[Heep]

Originally posted by Bean Bandit
The last M3 which wasn't available in the States...

Which one was that?

[flylwsi]

i believe he means the one that was 340 hp
in road and track they said that it would have been a 50k car if it came here, so we got stuck in a 240 hp car... that is what he is talkin bout:licker:

[Heep]

OK, thanks.

[flylwsi]

no prollem

:licker:

[Porsche]

Hey! Tghis brings up another question. Why does europe always get the higher hp cars that go faster?
I know emissions may have a role in this but, surely they could tune something to get the same hp or make a universal model.

[flylwsi]

europe has lower standards all around for impact, and all that...
they are also much more into motorsport over there,,,, the 4cyl kind... forced induction and such...
wrc, f1, all that good racing shit... we are "big dumb americans in v8 cars". that is why they dont cater to us as much...
we have yet to accept that there are cars w/ less than 8 cyls that can kick ass...

not to be puttin down the 8cyl... but it is generally true
thas why touring cars and the alms havent caught on all that much...
but everyone knows that a vette won the 24 @ daytona...
no one really knows that the audis dominate the le mans series though... ya know what i mean?

and... more of those cars are developed and even built over there, whereas we are simply a country that want to import... and as a nationalistic country, we dont like to import... sucks for us, cuz i want a scooby wrx sti
:licker:

[Racer 20]

What I like is that both countries are always tuning and inventing and improving there technology. I wish American cars were like that. Not that American cars can't be tuned to go faster etc. But they aren't as enthusiastic when it comes to tuning modern cars, more classics are tuned here in America. Which is cool too. Gives us character.

[Jay!]

American manufacturers seem to be more interested now in techie gizmos than high-performance tuning. For examples: GM's love for OnStar and the Caddy's nightvision technology.

[Jay!]

Quoted from the May 7, 2001 issue of AutoWeek
...Acura has watched its sales consistently rise; its 3.2TL now leads the way as America's No. 1-selling near-luxury mid-size sedan, eclipsing such competition as the BMW 3 Series, Mercedes-Benz C-Class and Lexus ES 300.

So, what's the definition of "near-luxury?"

[jinushaun]

Near-luxury is entry level luxury, the $28-38k offerings from luxury car makers; usually compact saloons. It's the cars that are cheap enough for mere mortals to afford. The TL is in that $28-38k range, along with the 3 Series, C Klasse, A4, IS, and X Type.

The 5 Series, E Klasse, A6, GS, RL, and S Type are all luxury ($40-55k), while the 7 Series, S Klasse, A8, LS and XJ Series ($60k+) are considered super or ultra-luxury (?) by some sources. These are just arbitrary classifications. Some call near-luxury Upscale.

Btw: Doesn't anyone else notice that Audi is BMW+1? The A4 competes with the 3 and so on...

As for Porsche, that's made by Audi so it all gets lumped up in there.

[jinushaun]

If reliability was my biggest concern, I'd take a Lexus--believe me, BMW, Mercedes, and Audi/VW has enough, albiet not alot, lemons to worry me.

However for performance, handling, and engineering--I'd take a German car any day. As someone pointed out, Japanese cars are built as excellent copies of German cars, but it's just not the same. I live in the states but subscribe to UK car magazines, and let me tell you, they rate on handling and performance. Lexus is the only Japanese car maker to get really good ratings. It is considered real competition to the German offering.

Also as flylwsi mentioned, the Europeans are more into motorsports, so their cars are built for performance. I'm still waiting for Lexus to create a racing (BMW -> M) or tuner (Merc -> AMG) division.

OT: In terms of luxury, Lexus, Merc, and Audi gets rated down for their interior, which I just don't get. The magazine CAR loves the BMW interior: material and layout. Does any one else agree.