Initial-D Realism

[peter i]

it's only a "racer" story .......

dosen't have anything to do with Realism..

Zz~zZ~zZ

[tegusdrifter]

First off, i don't mean to degrade you Tegus, but pray tell, how do you know what happens on the underground racing in Japan.

I was actually in Tokyo with my father last year's Christmas for vacation. The apartment I was staying in had a view to an intersection where many cars practiced drifting. I was able to see one road race on Rokko Island between two Rx-7s, the winner had supposedly beaten a highly tuned Skyline the week before I arrived. It was after seeing this that I got interested in drifting and started watching Initial D. I know it's just a cartoon but besides being very entertaining it gives you a very good picture of how road racing in Japan is. I could swear that the roads that are in Initial D are almost identical to some I saw over there.

[Rage of Xenin]

Originally posted by tegusdrifter
I could swear that the roads that are in Initial D are almost identical to some I saw over there.

thats cuz the animators/writers used actual roads for Initial D.
Initial D = Entertainment

[LanEvo]

Initial-D is modled after some real courses, but the writers won't relinquish the names of these mountains. At least that's some rumor i heard from a friend who is a die hard initial-d fan.

I agree that it is fun to watch, well it's definetley fun to watch, but i'm sorry that i can't comment on how much of a true idea it really gives you of Japan's underground racing. So i'll take your word for that, since you have more experience with it than me.

But i think our views are pretty much the same. Initial-D fun to watch, you get some facts out of it, but take it with a grain of salt.

[sidewayseg6]

"IF" it were real life - I think that if someone drove the exact same stretch of mountain road course everyday, through dry, rain, and snow, for the past five years in a hachi-roku, and he did it as FAST as he can possibly go every time without spilling a cup of water, and then out of nowhere he had to race someone on that same stretch of road, someone that has drove there only a few times, I think I would put my money on the hachi-roku, whether he had to race a 400HP Skyline or any other car on that same stretch of road. Whether or not he has never raced another car before wouldn't matter, he knows the road better than anyone else except his dad, and he hauls ass there everyday. "IF" it were real life, the Skyline or any other car wouldn't stand a chance, even if they were experienced drivers, Takumi was more experienced on that particular road. If you have ever raced on a REAL mountain pass road similar to Akina (Highland Valley Road, San Diego) then you would know. Your brakes get hot FAST especially going downhill. So whether it was real or cartoon, Takumi should win all the races in Akina (just not the WAY he wins in the cartoon) As for the OTHER tracks in the rest of the series, I don't know about that...
Since it is only a cartoon, ENTERTAINMENT is the key. Of course there are going to be alot of BS parts like 1 cm to the gaurdrail, the gutter, and drifting on mountain passes that he has never driven on before. That's just entertainment. I think that the writers of Intial D had the right idea about Takumi's driving skill, they just exaggerated too much. All it comes down to is this: Good that he won all the Akina races, but he should have lost all the races outside Akina. But who cares, it's only a cartoon, right?

[NSX-R-SSJ20K]

I'd like to point out that none of the opponents cars are extremely high powered and at no point did he out accelerate a higher powered vehicle on a straight line. This is Touge we're talking about Large Turbo's don't help much between tight corners again I would like people to have a look at best motoring videos before shouting their mouths of that it is not realistic. I think it is pretty close. Agreed Keiichi's car has a lot of weight saving mods but the idea is pretty close to what Keiichi did with his car when he used to race on Touge's (downhill only) Before he became famous for his constant drifts.

[LanEvo]

I'm glad that you both brought up very valid points.

I'll first address sidewayseg6; you've noted what i have said about racing experience versus individual high speed experiences. Though I don't think you appreciate it, if you post in the AutoX forum and ask the difference between a time trial and a head on head. You will quickly have several people willing to educate you about the differences. If i remember correctley i believe the skyline was in front for the begging portion of the race. This skyline is the member of a racing team, i think he would know how to block, also since he has the advantage of AWD (i'm pretty sure he was AWD) he could very easily block.

Anyways i could rant more about other stuff you said but i'll leave it to two comments, one you started of your topics with "IF it were real". Well that's what this topic was all about, Initial-D realism, it simply is not real. Also you mentioned some BS that Initial-D often used, sure there is plenty of it, but i figured that you'd like to know the "gutter" is a real technique these forums may have somthying on it if not just go to www.google.ca and search "ditch hooking"

And NSX a thought, these people were members of racing teams you specificly go racing through mountain passes, i don't think they would install large turbos, maybe just 16G or so not 20G or anything like that. They would know what they are doing.

Keep it up guys, this is a cool topic!

[Fliquer]

Now Fliquer, you said a tough course is composed mainly of turns. Have you watched actaul racing clips of drifting? Or even Wanga? They are not, they are typicaly composed of three to six difficult turns that will require drifting, those turns make it a drifting course, the rest of turns are impractical to use drifting on. That is why most drifting in the world (including Japan) is kept off the mountains and on the tracks where it is possible to use drifting techniques more often.

Thats right, but I was talking about grip mountain racing.

BTW is "tough" a typo? because i was referring to "touge" not "tough"

[Cbass]

Ok, the whole idea is that Takumi pushes himself as hard as he can every day on the downhill, and that he was tutored by Bunta, master drifter who used to terrify Keiichi Tsyuchiya himself with his drifting skills. After 5 years of doing this every day, his skills would be superior to anyone except Bunta. It doesn't matter whether it's on Akina or not, the control he has learned over that car can be applied anywhere.

He drives a 2100lb, 160hp hp FR. You can tell the engine has been modified, it pulls 8000rpm!

As for the "high powered cars" he beats, his opponents are

Keisuke, with a ~350hp, 2800lb FD. Pretty impressive, but he didn't know the course, and Takumi out drove him.

Nakazato, with a 380hp 3400lb GTR. Big, heavy, understeers, doesn't drift the hairpins.

These guys aren't that much more powerful, when you consider the weight, and that htey never really exceed 110 mph / 150kph.

[sidewayseg6]

Originally Posted by LanEvo

I'm glad that you both brought up very valid points.

I'll first address sidewayseg6; you've noted what i have said about racing experience versus individual high speed experiences. Though I don't think you appreciate it, if you post in the AutoX forum and ask the difference between a time trial and a head on head. You will quickly have several people willing to educate you about the differences. If i remember correctley i believe the skyline was in front for the begging portion of the race. This skyline is the member of a racing team, i think he would know how to block, also since he has the advantage of AWD (i'm pretty sure he was AWD) he could very easily block.

Anyways i could rant more about other stuff you said but i'll leave it to two comments, one you started of your topics with "IF it were real". Well that's what this topic was all about, Initial-D realism, it simply is not real. Also you mentioned some BS that Initial-D often used, sure there is plenty of it, but i figured that you'd like to know the "gutter" is a real technique these forums may have somthying on it if not just go to www.google.ca and search "ditch hooking"

Keep it up guys, this is a cool topic!

That's pretty cool, i never knew the gutter was an actual technique. I always thought that it was something the artists' just did as an action sequence.
As for the difference between a time trial and a head on race, I only meant that (in that particular situation), where Takumi was racing on his own track, he should be unstoppable. I know there is a difference, but even if the other car was in front blocking, I'm pretty sure Takumi still would of found a way to get passed him before the end of the race, like he did with the gutter. And although Nakazato was an experienced racer, he wasn't TOO experienced because his head wasn't straight. Just like the other racers, they got too emotional. And they all had the wrong goals. Instead of setting their minds on "I need to win this race for MYSELF", they set their minds on "TAKUMI needs to lose this race." In other words, Takumi had his mind set on WINNING the race, or just plain racing because he didn't care if he won or not. The other drivers had their minds set on TAKUMI, and that Takumi must lose at all costs. And I think that played a key factor in the outcome, on top of mechanical failure. But that's on Akina. I think if Takumi raced on another mountain pass, he'd crash on the third turn.
That's my opinion, didn't mean to upset you.

[Strider Negro]

shit i love initial D, have all the stages, and even i know not to confuse that a real life hachi roku can defeat a skyline or an rx7 for that matter. sure it's fun seeing takumi race but even then you have to question the realism of the whole thing.
hence why it is a cartoon. the writers try to justify takumi's skill level by saying he would deliver tofu everyday for 5 years. driving and racing are two different subjects like LanEvo said.
shit he even repeats countless times that he loves initial d and this isn't a flame thread...yet the masses seem not to understand that...it is a cartoon, only a cartoon none of it is meant to be real, in fact they even put a disclaimer in the beginning of the anime. it isn't real. do not confuse reality with fantasy...now that that is said i will continue to watch second stage
peace...

[NSX-R-SSJ20K]

What C-Bass said is what i was trying to say the difference isn't that huge

And best motoring's keiichi Tsyuchia uses a Trueno in the touge parts on hot version which is what Takumi does. He beats all these high powered cars including a 350hp S15 because they can't lay down the power all the time. He's also that used to driving the trueno that he's basically what Takumi would be in real life. This guy can drive folks and none of the opponents in Initial D are anywhere near as good as drivers as Takumi and they do make a point of the engine being weak and he does upgrade to the AE111 11000 rpm thing but the sounds for the engine actually come from Keiichi's Trueno and if you watch enough of the best motoring videos you'll agree (its also on the HK DVD with the Production of the Movie Documentary.)

On a track I'm not so sure a Trueno would beat a 280hp skyline but on the Touge Keiichi managed to do it.

[Cbass]

Well, Nakazatos R32 was tuned for 380hp, if I recall.

Even so, it weighs over 3000lbs, and the Trueno is barely even 2000lbs. Most of the course is braking and handling, with a few straights in between. If you accept that with a much lighter FR, and intimate knowledge of the course, it's quite plausable that Takumi could beat more powerful cars. Their power/weight isn't that much better than his.

That being said, it is of course a cartoon

And to be fair, no one knows quite what Bunta has done with that Trueno.

[Strider Negro]

Originally Posted by Cbass

Well, Nakazatos R32 was tuned for 380hp, if I recall.

Even so, it weighs over 3000lbs, and the Trueno is barely even 2000lbs. Most of the course is braking and handling, with a few straights in between. If you accept that with a much lighter FR, and intimate knowledge of the course, it's quite plausable that Takumi could beat more powerful cars. Their power/weight isn't that much better than his.

That being said, it is of course a cartoon

And to be fair, no one knows quite what Bunta has done with that Trueno.

exactly
no one knows what bunta has done to that freaking trueno for all we know he could have changed the pullies and pistons...but hey it's just a cartoon...

[peter i]

A stock version car

aftrer few changes
example : 1.wax the IN/EX port , you add "7 HP" minimum
2.High suction Air filter ,add another 5~10 HP
3.changing the ECU and did a fine tune add 12HP
4.changing bigger intercooler ,add 10~15 HP
5.High volume feul injector ,add about 15HP+
6.Changing yours exsauht system to a direct one ,add another5~7HP
7.lose the wight of yours fly-wheel ,possible rev higher RPM and boost the power to 10~30%
8.change to performance CAM/Pully and performance valve spring boost yours engine around 15~20% of power (NA type)