Need help ASAP, 1989 f150 dual tank stalls and is getting no fuel

[CanukGMC]

I think partial success! <knock on friggin wood>

I reconnected the old pump (hoping to return the new one as I never did use it) and started hacking away at the relay. Not sure how it is on other models but the "relay box" on my fender is just 2 relays hidden under a plastic lid of sorts (that does not open) and screwed into a metal bracket on the airbox. The screws were SO deteriorated that they were perfectly round and had not bit size to remove them (or hex size if they used to be bolts). Again I noticed the relay appeared fine but was pissed and got the grinder out. I hacked the "relay box" off the mounting bracket and using a screw driver unlocked the secret tabs that hold the stupid things into that plastic lid (only accessible from the underside before I cut it out). I popped out what I believed was the fuel relay (was right, it's green in colour) and it appeared perfectly fine.

I started brake cleaning the wires to see the colours on the harness so I could start shorting them to force the pump to run and a big yellow wire FELL right out of the harness clip, completely rotted a neon green colour at the tip. Interesting. I clip the end off and short it to the brown wire terminal and I hear a faint sound under the frame. I try an crank the truck and sure nuff the battery is now dead. I hooked up my other truck with some jumper cables and when I short the brown to yellow sure enough I hear the pump fire up like old times (with almost a whiny sound like a buzzer). I try and crank the truck but it BARELY turns over so the batt must be REALLY dead. It's on the charger right now, hopefully it'll turn over. I'm not sure if you can even buy these harnesses? There's sort of a "junk yard" in town, maybe he has one of these trucks and I'll just transplant it.

In the meantime I'm going to see if the truck will run while shorted. I'm assuming this fuel system has a bypass for the pump so if they engine and injectors are not needing the fuel supplied it cycles back into the loop and doesn't just blow a line right? So much frustration lol, and it may be at an end. <knock on wood>

[rhandwor]

Buy a new relay if you butchered it up. The two big terminals are for the fuel pump hot wire. The two small terminals are used to turn on the relay. Unplug the relay use a jumper with a no.12 wire and two male connectors. Plug into the relay base if the pump runs I would try a new relay and fix the connectors. If you go to the junk yard buy the relay and connector and connect it in use silicon on all connections.

[CanukGMC]

ARGH. Ok now I'm losing it. Got spark, can hear the %$@% fuel pump running on the frame rail, crank till the batt dies and not even a friggin sputter! Wtf is the brown relay directly beside the green fuel one? It looks exactly the same, it clicks when I wiggle it around and seems to cause clicking on the green one. It's yellow wire is fried too and the prong inside the thing is toasted as well. Wtf is it? I'm losing it I know, but this is days without a truck and living in the bush is NOT a good combo for someone with a job.

[rhandwor]

The brown one is the EEC power relay. This relay has to work to supply control power for the fuel relay. I guess a trip to the scrap yard to get both relays and the plugs and wires is a job for tommorrow. Read the column on swapped tranny no fuel for a good write up on the two relays.

[CanukGMC]

Tnx for all the great help guys, sorry if I'm comin off a bit panicky but life's hard without a vehicle here. I noticed when I short the main wires on the brown relay I hear a click in the engine somewhere and in the green fuel relay. The wires are all messed up around those 2 relays so I'm going to see if I can clip and get both relays and the wires from the junker and solder that in place to see what will happen.

ANY other info or ideas would be awesome, I'm off work tomorrow so I'm hoping to figure it out. Right now when shorting the green fuel relay the fuel pump on the frame rail DOES in fact run now and up in the engine bay I can hear what I assume is fuel gurgling in a line or something behind the engine near the firewall, it cranks and cranks and cranks but never even sputters, tested and confirmed full spark and the plugs are bone dry so no fuel is still getting in. Switching to either rear tank did not change anything.

[rhandwor]

Pull the air nozzle off and spray some starting fluid in the engine should run this will verify that you have spark and it is a fuel problem. This is between the air flow meter and the engine.
I think when both relays are working it will run.
If a fuel problem disconnect the inlet line to the big fuel pump on the frame the small pump in the tank should put out about 3 to 7 psi this is what primes the main fuel pump. You can pull the vacuum line for the fuel pressure regulator and if it has gas in it replace it.
If more extensive testing is needed this is the type of tools needed.
http://www.autopart.com/tools/toolsmain/tool/T_3440.htm
Use search for this number 3441 These verify fuel pressure and power to injectors. I think when you get power to the brown relay you will have power to the injectors.

[CanukGMC]

Originally Posted by rhandwor

Pull the air nozzle off and spray some starting fluid in the engine should run this will verify that you have spark and it is a fuel problem. This is between the air flow meter and the engine.
I think when both relays are working it will run.
If a fuel problem disconnect the inlet line to the big fuel pump on the frame the small pump in the tank should put out about 3 to 7 psi this is what primes the main fuel pump. You can pull the vacuum line for the fuel pressure regulator and if it has gas in it replace it.
If more extensive testing is needed this is the type of tools needed.
http://www.autopart.com/tools/toolsmain/tool/T_3440.htm
Use search for this number 3441 These verify fuel pressure and power to injectors. I think when you get power to the brown relay you will have power to the injectors.

Rewired relays.
New plugs on both.
Turn key, clickclick and the fuel pump spins up.
Crank engine NOTHING
Hosed a ton of starter fluid into the throttle bodies with the rubber tubes pulled off. Nothing. wtf

Still has spark.

Totally lost and beaten at this point.


PS finally burnt my haynes manual. 3 $#@ paragraphs on what a fuel pressure regulator does and not ONE description or ONE picture of where the $%@$#@ thing is. I hate that book.

[spytearbite]

Starting fluid will blow the heads off or move the studs as in lift the engine up off the mounts.

Just be careful, drop a shot glass or two down the throttle body and it should suck that vapor is did you check compression?

1. Fuel = Yes I have spark
2. Spark = Yes I have gas to pour in
3. Compression is then one more variable is how easy is that engine spinning?

Now, you might have a spark and that is like a moment if not the crank sensor? Did you do anything at the transmission wire harness? You have the speed sensor is the spark to fuel pump shut you down 85mph limiter... OK, say 92mph and it falls on it's face is check the trans for a lost signal?

Crank sensor has no code, (2 wires only). ECM has no code saying I am dying so change me out. You have a good known ECM. YOu have that charred book reading the ohm's resistance on the crank sensor?

No, I mean that crank sensor is not close enough for spec... I mean it is within spec or toss it.

[spytearbite]

Originally Posted by spytearbite

Starting fluid will blow the heads off or move the studs as in lift the engine up off the mounts.

Just be careful, drop a shot glass or two down the throttle body and it should suck that vapor is did you check compression?

Since my edit is inop, I meant gasoline use as a starting fluid and roll the thing out of the garage or there goes the place up in smoke.

[CanukGMC]

Originally Posted by spytearbite

Starting fluid will blow the heads off or move the studs as in lift the engine up off the mounts.

Just be careful, drop a shot glass or two down the throttle body and it should suck that vapor is did you check compression?

1. Fuel = Yes I have spark
2. Spark = Yes I have gas to pour in
3. Compression is then one more variable is how easy is that engine spinning?

Now, you might have a spark and that is like a moment if not the crank sensor? Did you do anything at the transmission wire harness? You have the speed sensor is the spark to fuel pump shut you down 85mph limiter... OK, say 92mph and it falls on it's face is check the trans for a lost signal?

Crank sensor has no code, (2 wires only). ECM has no code saying I am dying so change me out. You have a good known ECM. YOu have that charred book reading the ohm's resistance on the crank sensor?

No, I mean that crank sensor is not close enough for spec... I mean it is within spec or toss it.

I don't even know if I'm using starting fluid right for this type of engine. Is there an easier way to spray it in? The TB's are on their side stacked so they face the front of the engine, spraying into them while holding the plates open seems to get some in there but alot runs out too. I thought I heard it sput 1 single power stroke a few mins ago while out there yelling like a madman and spinning the starter but I may have been hearing things.

My problem here is that I really can't see 4 things all crapping out mysteriously at the exact same time. The wires on the relays were rotted right out, I drive dirt roads everyday, finally they broke loose and cut my fuel (no fuel pump would run AT ALL). It was not a catrostrophic impact that broke them loose at all. I have since got the fuel pump running again but now it really won't start. Spark, fuel sounds, and crank, NOTHING. I'm so so so lost at this point.

Where is the pressure regulator anyone? The useless book says nothing of it's even relative location. I tried following the fuel line but it literally goes into the back of the engine and disapears. Everyone in previous threads seems to find and replace it like cake, I don't even know where the damn thing is.


EDIT: OK THIS TRUCK DEFIES LOGIC. It has spark and the spark is timed out right, pulses in regular flashes I can hear with the crank of the engine. STARTING FLUID IN THROTTLE BODY= NOTHING
GAS IN THROTTLE BODY=NOTHING

Throwing this truck out. Gas+air+crank+spark=not even a sputter. It's cursed.

[spytearbite]

I would run way up the wire harness and rebuild what was rotted out. I think one wire from ground or hot say just opened the loop. There is your short to open, not to ground or you would blow a fuse.

There is a specific fitting on the fuel rail to check fuel pressures. Most of the fuel rails have this for diagnostics and this is how you spec the rails for pressure. Usually something like 44psi is a workable injector.

Man, If I could match colors back to the muddy tank connectors, you could just rewire it and off you go. I mean, you lost more a wire than a component? Hard as it is for you as it is for the net speak is get that tweak is back up and running.

Take a funnel, a clear clean tube (no grit crushing onto the valve seats or grit scraping the cylinder wall is you want this as clean as possible. So, you shove the clear tube down the plenum and there you go. Pull the tube and close the air cleaner over it so no backfire lights the car up.

Take your time and do it closing down that furnace on the reverse is a saved care took half a minute you keep filling the funnel is close the furnace door.

[spytearbite]

Remember, that crank sensor going out of spec and forget about everything else. So think computer car is the engine has good compression is a running engine... sans how it starts up be it carb or injector. But say now you think m more like a no-start computer vehicle is generic no start is = Faulty Crank Sensor ~ Shows false spark is not spec/ is fuel pump also in the loop to show low pressure is shut down the pump or, Fire!!!! IN THE HOLE! Someone stop the fuel pump!

So, what is the spec number on the crank sensor is the same before you throw parts at it not covering your azz is basic/ Compression NUmbers/ Crank sensor NUMBeers is you are swapping parts as fast as you are driinking yourself silly swapping out part$!

[CanukGMC]

I'm having a hard time understanding this.

The truck is fubared.

GAS

Gas
Air
Spark

It has all these and won't even putter. It can't be anything fuel related at this point because i DUMPED gas into the friggin TB's themselves and it still wouldn't fire. Called the only mech in town and he said he had NO idea and probably couldn't fix it. Comforting huh? Guess I'm just fucked at this point. Totally and completely. Thanks ford!

[rhandwor]

Normally the pressure regulator is on the fuel rail. Don't spray gobs of starting fluid a few squirts will run an engine. Make sure your air filter is fairly clean a trip in the mud can plug the air intake.
Take a 12 volt test light and put it on the coil negative the light should blink as you crank the engine. If it doesn't blink get another distributor at the scrap yard. It takes a special puller to change the pickup. My 1999 manual shows a distributor not a camshaft position sensor. The module can be tested free at Auto Zone or Advanced. You can also try a scrapyard module.
You can lose compression by wiping the cylinder walls with fuel. In this case pull plugs and squirt oil in the cylinder. Crank over with the plugs out then reinstall plugs.
Try using a test light and make sure the injectors are getting fuel.
Calm down you will figure it out this is good training.

[spytearbite]

Originally Posted by rhandwor

You can lose compression by wiping the cylinder walls with fuel. In this case pull plugs and squirt oil in the cylinder. Crank over with the plugs out then reinstall plugs.

Wait!!!! You do not lose compression with fuels. You have the gas being pushed out the exhaust. If you lose compression, then the crank will not turn is hydraulic lock being the cylinder chamber is full to the brim with liquid and you can't compress liquid too well or too much is a stuck crank and a heating up starter motor.
Bent valves, blown head gaskets, piston ring end gap are some of known compression losses. I doubt you will find compression loss when you have liquid pushing up against the ring groove to ring is a better seal under compression, not loss of compression. What do you think makes the pistons all pushed up against the cylinder wall but pressure behind the ring.

You may have tripped up on the compression, but I would pull a plug and see how wet-fouled they are? If they look sooty wet... Then change the plugs, do not prime the car is it should start right up.