Major Maintenance - Suggestions?

[hufhouse]

Got my report back today from Blackstone, and there is definitely coolant in the oil. There is also FUEL in the oil. What would cause that?

[cdru]

Originally Posted by hufhouse

Got my report back today from Blackstone, and there is definitely coolant in the oil. There is also FUEL in the oil. What would cause that?

Leaky rings and/or valve seals could allow fuel to enter the oil. Some contamination is normal. What were your levels at and how many miles did you have on your oil?

I'd also send a message to Blackstone asking for their opinion. They might be able to give you suggestions based on what they have seen with your engine type and milage.

[hufhouse]

I've got a lot of questions tonight. I'm almost at the point where I'm going to remove the lower intake, but I've hit a hurdle.

But first, the issue of fuel in my coolant. Blackstone Labs wrote, "Yes, the coolant you're losing is going into the oil. We also found fuel, and both contaminants may be entering the system at the same point. A mechanic could probably tell you for sure. We found above-average lead, and it's hard to say if it's from the contaminants or the oil filter issue. (I'll explain later.) We'd guess it's from the contaminants, if you only drove about 1/4 mile without the filter. The contaminants are wreaking havoc with the oil; insolubles were high & the viscosity was low. If you fix the engine now, bearings should be fine..."

(The oil filter story is that the shop that changes my oil installed the wrong oil filter and it blew off the engine on Christmas day. I replaced the oil and drove another 1,145 miles before sending the sample to Blackstone.)

There was 4.5% fuel in the oil. Lead was 11 (average is 4). Potassium was 93 (average is 5). Sodium is 110 (average is 9). Can fuel enter the oil due to a bad intake manifold gasket?

Now, for my questions about the intake manifold gasket replacement.

1. I cannot figure out how to remove the alternator bracket. I found two bolts on the side (by the pulleys) and one bolt in the back, centered between and slightly below the two alternator bolts. I can't find another bolt anyplace, but the bracket WILL NOT budge. I even tried to convince it with a hammer, but it won't move. Is there a bolt hidden someplace? I can't remove the rear valve cover without removing that bracket.

The Haynes Manual says that there are three bolts on the pulley side and one very deep in the back. However, the picture doesn't look like my setup at all. However, the link I provided a couple posts ago says that there are two bolts on the pulley side and one in the back, just like I described.

2. The area under the valve covers has some of that caramel-like substance and, of course, a lot of black oily mung. What do you all suggest about cleaning that area?

3. What's the best tool to remove the front left diagonal bolt on the lower intake manifold? I used a small wrench, but it took me forever. I'm concerned that I won't be able to torque it correctly when I put it back. Someone mentioned a "crow's foot". What is that? Can I use it with the torque wrench and get an accurate reading?

4. Which "lock-tite" product (color) should I use on the bolts before I reinstall them? There are a lot of choices. I think I bought the red stuff. Also, which RTV sealant? I think I bought the "ultra" blue. The guy said something about it being better for sensors.

5. Should I replace the O-rings on the fuel injectors while I've got this torn apart? It seems easy enough, but I didn't want to have to run to the auto parts store if it isn't worth it.

I jumped the gun a little bit and removed the bolts that hold the lower intake manifold. I wanted to see how tight/loose they were. None of them were "finger tight", but none of them took any effort at all to remove. They were definitely looser than I would have expected for a large part that is under a lot of pressure and vibration. There is a lot of oil and coolant leaking on the left side of the engine from the lower intake manifold gasket.

Thanks for all your help. It's kind of funny that this thread is titled "Major Maintenance" because that's all I originally thought I was going to do. However, the "Major Maintenance" has become an afterthought and is getting done as a "side job" to the lower intake manifold gasket replacement. The bright side is...it sure makes changing the rear spark plugs a lot easier!!!

[Montanacanada]

Hufhouse

Not an expert, but just changed the front cylinder head gasket three weeks ago, so the job is fresh in my mine. So I may be of some help.

I cleaned all my parts with laquer thinner and a metal brush the size of a tooth brush, also using a 1" wide scraper for the tough stuff ( be carful not to nick the aluminum... this worked great. also used compressed air.


Lower intake bolts at the ends used just a 1/4" drive socket with a universal,


Im sure you already removed the alternator from the bracket. Bolts... one inback, three on the pulley side for my 98 Montana.


Just a reminder, I used the Haynes book.. lots of flipping back and forth chapters.. I copied the pages and put them in order of removal. this came in handy as I also tried cutting corners at the start put always had to go back to manual and do it the way they say.

O-rings, mine looked crushed after removing the rail so I did purchase new ones ( $ 30.00 for the package) felt rapped but didn't wont a gas leak on top of intake. Also had to change the O-ring on the intake side of the gas rail this did leak.( $ 8.00)

RTV sealant - purchased black, but the gasket set came with a tube(black), also came with a o-ring for the thermostat by-pass pipe.

thread lock used red- read this some were.????


CRDU - must be a mechanic, I wish I found this site prior to starting my repair. Thanks CRDU

Just want to give my two cents as a back yarder ( stubbern one), that with patients not all that hard of a job just time consuming.

By the way 1000 km put on after the repair ... no problems......YET

[hufhouse]

MontanaCanada,

Lot's of valuable input, but I have to admit that I said, "Dohhh!" when you mentioned using the 1/4" socket on the two bolts. That probably would have given me just enough clearance (with the smaller socket) to be able to do it with a ratchet. I was using a 3/8", and there was just not enough clearance for the ratchet. Then, when I switched to the wrench I had to maneuver it over and over again about 1/8 turn at a time. Man, I wish I would have thought of that. Oh well, at least it's in my "toolbox" for putting the little bolts back in.

I'm still hoping to get some additional input on the alternator bracket from someone. I am 99.99999% sure that there are only two bolts on the side, and I've used a mirror to look for another bolt on the back and I can't see one. I may end up having to forego removing the back valve cover, even though I would like to get in there and clean the "caramel" out really good.

Thanks!

[Montanacanada]

Hufhouse

Do you you want me to send you a picture of my alternator bolts ? ? This may help ? ?

[hufhouse]

Originally Posted by Montanacanada

Hufhouse

Do you you want me to send you a picture of my alternator bolts ? ? This may help ? ?

SURE! That could help.

[Montanacanada]

I can get my hands dirty and bloodied , but how do post pictures ???


Make explenation simple please, if you can help.


Thanks

[GregA]

Originally Posted by Montanacanada

I can get my hands dirty and bloodied , but how do post pictures ???

Make explenation simple please, if you can help.

Thanks

Most of the pictures I see on these forums are actually stored on other websites (like the one from my site below). I inserted it by clicking on the "Insert Image" icon in the reply screen & copying the URL to the image.



If you don't have somewhere online to store an image file, send me a PM (Private Message) and I will store the image on my site for you.

Take Care,

[hufhouse]

Originally Posted by Montanacanada

I can get my hands dirty and bloodied , but how do post pictures ???

Make explenation simple please, if you can help.

Thanks

I just PM'd you my e-mail address, if that's simpler for you. You can just e-mail me the picture(s).

Thanks again!

[hufhouse]

I just wanted to post that on my 2000 Montana, the bolt that holds the tensioner pulley also holds the alternator bracket. The Haynes Manual shows a different configuration. In desperation, I removed the tensioner pulley to see if there was a hidden bolt underneath and the alternator bracket fell out in my hand!

[cdru]

Originally Posted by hufhouse

Can fuel enter the oil due to a bad intake manifold gasket?

Yes. The intake gasket not only seals around 4 coolant passage openings, but it also seals around the 6 air intakes going to each cylinder. Those intakes carry both the air and fuel (injectors are inserted into the lower manifold). If one of those seals failed, it's possible air was being sucked into the internal portions of the engine.

I'd fix the intake gasket, run for a few thousand miles and reset your oil.

1. I cannot figure out how to remove the alternator bracket. I found two bolts on the side (by the pulleys) and one bolt in the back, centered between and slightly below the two alternator bolts. I can't find another bolt anyplace, but the bracket WILL NOT budge. I even tried to convince it with a hammer, but it won't move. Is there a bolt hidden someplace? I can't remove the rear valve cover without removing that bracket.

There should be 3 bolts. There is a lower pivot bolt that is removed from the pully side. There is a bolt a bolt somewhat above the pivot bolt that passes through the alternator and screws into a nut that is welded on a small angle bracket. The last bolt is on the opposite side of the pully towards the back. This bolt screws into the alternator but passes through a larger angle bracket. Or at least that is how I remember it on my van. Remove those 3 bolts (and the belt obviously) should be all. You may need to pry it up off of the lower pivot point as that is a tight squeeze I beleive.

The Haynes Manual says that there are three bolts on the pulley side and one very deep in the back. However, the picture doesn't look like my setup at all. However, the link I provided a couple posts ago says that there are two bolts on the pulley side and one in the back, just like I described.

My Haynes manual matches my setup exactly.

2. The area under the valve covers has some of that caramel-like substance and, of course, a lot of black oily mung. What do you all suggest about cleaning that area?

The gooey stuff should come up with some parts cleaner. Don't worry about the varnish that coats everything. You'll never get it off. Remove the screws that hold on the metal covers to the underside of the valve covers. Clean under there as well.

3. What's the best tool to remove the front left diagonal bolt on the lower intake manifold? I used a small wrench, but it took me forever. I'm concerned that I won't be able to torque it correctly when I put it back. Someone mentioned a "crow's foot". What is that? Can I use it with the torque wrench and get an accurate reading?

A crows foot is what you need. It looks like a open end wrench, but instead of having a handle, it has a stub with usually a 3/8 square opening for a ratchet extension. Here is an example of what they look like. You should be able to find them at a automotive parts store. I got a cheap set (~$15) at Autozone. They were cheaply made and I actually had to file to 10mm foot slightly to get it to fit, but for no more then what your doing, they work fine.

4. Which "lock-tite" product (color) should I use on the bolts before I reinstall them? There are a lot of choices. I think I bought the red stuff. Also, which RTV sealant? I think I bought the "ultra" blue. The guy said something about it being better for sensors.

Medium (blue) is fine but you can also use red. Any rtv will work. You can get the hi-temp stuff if you want. It's not under real direct pressure and you are only sealing the valleys, not around coolant passages. You don't have to worry about sensor safe in this application.

5. Should I replace the O-rings on the fuel injectors while I've got this torn apart? It seems easy enough, but I didn't want to have to run to the auto parts store if it isn't worth it.

Your choice. I replaced the lower o-rings, but didn't remove the injectors from the fuel rail when I did mine.

it sure makes changing the rear spark plugs a lot easier!!!

You also won't get much easier access to the O2 sensor...but I think we've already discussed that.

[hufhouse]

CDRU,

Thanks for this and for ALL of your help along the way.

My alternator bracket was definitely different than the Haynes Manual or the photo that MontanaCanada sent me. The third bolt on the belt side went through the tensioner pulley, through the alternator bracket and into the engine block.

[bilal.1474]

how we design a cramp zone,