What to do if you want F1-GTR short tail kit from Aoshima

[lezdep]

I would argue that Fujimi made a trap and no matter which version Aoshima would have tried to do first, Fujimi was ahead and
would immediately release same version to spoil Aoshima's sales. I speculate that as soon as Aoshima announced their F1-GTR, Fujimi
started a rush job of developing their own kits. While Aoshima was slow to announce, Fujimi decided to release F1 road car first. But of course
failed to make it correct and gave up hint of racing versions, by including wrong door inserts. I think by that point Fujimi was ready
to release either short tail or long tail to counter act any Aoshima release. The only fault of Aoshima is that they decided to make
more accurate and more detailed kit and don't have resources to pull that job off in very short time. They've also got access to real
car and that takes extra time. Fujimi cheated on both accuracy and details to get ahead. So, Aoshima was to lose sales either way.
I just hope some people did not compromise on bad Fujimi kits and waited as me for kit from Aoshima. I bought none of F1-GTRs
from Fujimi and 5 kits from Aoshima. If Aoshima was to announce short tail now, I would wait as long as it takes and not buy any
Fujimi kits again.

Btw, I think my logic is supported by the fact Fujim cancelled their own MP4/2 kit project. To me it is obvious that they wanted again
to spoil Aoshima's effort, but realized they would not be able to make well detailed MP4/2 kit in time. Compare to sports cars, it's not
easy to cheat on accuracy and detail level when it comes to Formula One cars.

Originally Posted by hirofkd

On the other hand, I don't think Fujimi is making well-planned, calculating moves. All the blunders make me think that they are short of staff, talent and dedication, a small group of bored local salaried workers carrying out routine work day in, day out. And the quality and value of the kit largely depend on the skills and knowledge of the outsourced designer, and Fujimi's QA is almost non existent.
And it seems that the entire McLaren F1 project was handled by an underskilled designer. F12 and Veneno kits are fairly good, but McLaren F1 road and long tail kits have too many elementary mistakes. They couldn't have been designed by the same person or the same design firm.

I do think that Fujimi steps were calculated. They really wanted to spoil it for Aoshima so much. They obviously did very rushed and compromised
job on their F1 and F1-GTR kits. See my logic above.

Originally Posted by hirofkd

I'll be picking up Fujimi's short tail kits mainly for the decals and some useable parts, but my hunch tells me that it will have the same kind of issues that require extensive modification to make it accurate.

You can get decals from TABU and Studio27. If there was a short tail version kit to be released by Aoshima, I wouldn't spend
money on Fujimi kits.

[jano11]

While Fujimi is not making same quality and detail models as Tamiya or Aoshima do (recently), they do make the right marketing moves and they are always the first to the market and with higher prices too!
By the time Aoshima had released their long tail presentation model Fujimi had already sold out the McLaren F1 road version and long tail race versions. And now has also announced the short tail ones, and by the time Aoshim has theirs announced Fujimi will have sold out their first batches.
Hate to say it but whatever the level of their products their marketing is better.

[John18d]

Originally Posted by jano11

While Fujimi is not making same quality and detail models as Tamiya or Aoshima do (recently), they do make the right marketing moves and they are always the first to the market and with higher prices too!
By the time Aoshima had released their long tail presentation model Fujimi had already sold out the McLaren F1 road version and long tail race versions. And now has also announced the short tail ones, and by the time Aoshim has theirs announced Fujimi will have sold out their first batches.
Hate to say it but whatever the level of their products their marketing is better.

Jano - while you might think Fujimi's marketing is better (in the short run) - they will lose in the long run as modelers realize the low detail and high inaccuracies and high price of the Fujimi kits - people will rather wait for the better quality more accurate better detailed kits from Aoshima and Tamiya.

I have fallen into that group and will never buy another Fujimi kit
John

[blubaja]

Originally Posted by jano11

While Fujimi is not making same quality and detail models as Tamiya or Aoshima do (recently), they do make the right marketing moves and they are always the first to the market and with higher prices too!
By the time Aoshima had released their long tail presentation model Fujimi had already sold out the McLaren F1 road version and long tail race versions. And now has also announced the short tail ones, and by the time Aoshim has theirs announced Fujimi will have sold out their first batches.
Hate to say it but whatever the level of their products their marketing is better.

But the Fujimi longtail is shit compared to the Aoshima. And while Fujimi was indeed first to sell, Aoshima kept us all reassured of their quality with constant updates of the excellent level of detail they were tooling up.

[stevenoble]

Originally Posted by blubaja

But the Fujimi longtail is shit compared to the Aoshima. And while Fujimi was indeed first to sell, Aoshima kept us all reassured of their quality with constant updates of the excellent level of detail they were tooling up.

Got to say that I think you are wrong to say the Fujimi kit is sh*t. I've built it and it made a reasonably nice kerbside model which was all I wanted from it. Sure, it's not as accurate or as detailed as the Aoshima kit, no one is disputing that. But to say it's sh*t is a bit harsh. Not everyone wants a balls out, high detail kit. The McLaren was a kit that I wanted to build, but I wasn't mad about it, so the Fujimi kit was right for me. If it wasn't for Fujimi kick starting 1/20 plastic again some years ago then there wouldn't be any 1/20 plastic. We had nothing from Tamiya for years and still not a great deal now. They have practically abandoned the scale altogether. So I think we should be thanking Fujimi for what they did when they kept it alive.

[hirofkd]

Sergey,
Timeline doesn't agree with your theory. It was Fujimi which announced the MP4/2 kit first, followed by Aoshima/Beemax, so by your logic, wouldn't it be Aoshima which tried to spoil Fujimi's effort, which Aoshima succeeded?

Anyway, it takes 8-10 months to release a plastic model, from budget approval to shipment of the mass-produced kits. And that's still fast, compared to Revell or Ebbro. Only Tamiya (and probably Bandai) can do it shorter, like 6 months, because they have in-house design department, mold tooling shop, and manufacturing factory, while the other model companies don't.

Fujimi announced the McLaren F1 road car on May 3rd, 2013, followed by Aoshima's announcement about the Long Tail kit on May 16 at the hobby show. Fujimi kit came out in August, so there was only 3 months in-between. There's no way Fujimi could release the F1 road car kit in response to Aoshima's announcement. Maybe the Long Tail kit (which came out in October), but there're only three sprues that are common, so most of the parts had to be designed from scratch much earlier (even the inner door panels aren't the same between the road car and long tail kits).
I rather think, all these McLaren releases (including MFH's resin kits) are due to change of licensing requirements and cost on McLaren's side in 2012.

Rushed kits have poor fitment and unfinished surface, as you may have seen in photos of pre-production samples posted on Aoshima's Facebook page.
Fujimi's McLaren F1 kits don't have any of those characteristics. As Steve says, Fujimi's McLaren kits can be built into decent curbside models -- fitment is good, and all parts are in production quality.

I really don't think Fujimi is that smart (maybe slightly above average in marketing). Instead, I think it's more like Aoshima's item choice, marketing, and development speed has a room to improve, and this gap (slightly above and below average) gives the impression that Fujimi is a better marketer than Aoshima.　But this's only about the McLaren F1 kits. These companies have been winner and loser in head-on competition in other items in other genre, so it's not like one company is deliberately trying to spoil another.

[jano11]

Originally Posted by blubaja

But the Fujimi longtail is shit compared to the Aoshima. And while Fujimi was indeed first to sell, Aoshima kept us all reassured of their quality with constant updates of the excellent level of detail they were tooling up.

Sure Aoshima was busy on their Facebook while Fujimi was happily selling the product.

The issue at hand is that many good modelling company went bust due to under par marketing of great products.
Nowadays being first on the market is paramount, best example is Apple.

[jano11]

Originally Posted by John18d

Jano - while you might think Fujimi's marketing is better (in the short run) - they will lose in the long run as modelers realize the low detail and high inaccuracies and high price of the Fujimi kits - people will rather wait for the better quality more accurate better detailed kits from Aoshima and Tamiya.

I have fallen into that group and will never buy another Fujimi kit
John

John, we are only a small sample of the model building community, most people are not taking their time to buy a new kit while waiting for another one to come out.
And companies know this very well, they know that the market wants things now, or better said yesterday, not tomorrow.

For myself I bought the MFH F1 GTR short tail and that is enough for me for now.

[jano11]

Originally Posted by stevenoble

Got to say that I think you are wrong to say the Fujimi kit is sh*t. I've built it and it made a reasonably nice kerbside model which was all I wanted from it. Sure, it's not as accurate or as detailed as the Aoshima kit, no one is disputing that. But to say it's sh*t is a bit harsh. Not everyone wants a balls out, high detail kit. The McLaren was a kit that I wanted to build, but I wasn't mad about it, so the Fujimi kit was right for me. If it wasn't for Fujimi kick starting 1/20 plastic again some years ago then there wouldn't be any 1/20 plastic. We had nothing from Tamiya for years and still not a great deal now. They have practically abandoned the scale altogether. So I think we should be thanking Fujimi for what they did when they kept it alive.

Exactly, through the years Fujimi contributed a lot to the model building community especially by releasing kits that no one else ever bothered to release before them, and they did and still do cash in for being the first out on the market.
When Fujimi started producing the 1/20 scale F1 kits, they did it because they saw an opportunity, took it and cashed in on it. I say well done.

[ZoomZoomMX-5]

I have a Profil24 short tail #24 resin kit, back from the days that they were the first to market w/a kit. When the world was screaming for a McLaren F1 and the plastic model companies were nowhere to be found. I resisted the even better, more expensive resins that came along afterwards because I figured that eventually the plastic companies would see the light. And here we are!

I'm 99.99999999% positive the Fujimi kit will blow my old crap resin kit out of the water. For less than half what I spent over 10 years ago.

It's all in perspective, now we have 2 plastic companies that offer McLaren F1's, and people get silly proclaiming one company is making manna from heaven and the other one is putting poop in a box. Trust me, anyone ragging on Fujimi...go get yourself an early Profil24 F1, build it, and get back with me

Why have I resisted buying an Aoshima long tail? Because I really don't want one, and I certainly don't need one. I'm not going to buy one just to say "hey, I'll buy this if you make that!". My interest in long tails is limited at best, I have at least two dozen exotics that I'd much rather build and I'm not getting any younger. I have two Fujimi long tail kits, they're more than sufficient for the effort I want to expend for a couple shelf models. If Aoshima makes the short tail, great! I will buy at least one. In the meantime, I'm sitting here looking at my Fujimi short tail street version and I don't see anything so far that makes me give up; I'm really stoked that soon I'll have my very own finished street F1...finally. I was about to build a vintage Fujimi F40 LM, got the one w/the original, beautiful box art. Too bad the front end of that model looks like it was designed by the same Picasso-inspired design team from Revell/Monogram that gave us their '69 Mach I. Back in the box it went.

Today Aoshima replied on Facebook about short tails. Again they said that sales of their long tails will make their decision about doing short tails. So yes, if you must have an Aoshima short tail, you know what to do. It won't guarantee anything, but hey, that's life!

We have plastic F1's of nearly every variant, and people are complaining. Life is good

[Fkouch]

Originally Posted by ZoomZoomMX-5

We have plastic F1's of nearly every variant, and people are complaining. Life is good

Seriously? We wait ten years for something and it's either an overpriced piece of crap(fujimi) or a labour of love that not everyone is too fussed about(aoshima longtail)

I have one of each and I still feel like I'm waiting for someone to do it properly.
So much messing about... it's laughable.

[lezdep]

Originally Posted by hirofkd

Sergey,
Timeline doesn't agree with your theory. It was Fujimi which announced the MP4/2 kit first, followed by Aoshima/Beemax, so by your logic, wouldn't it be Aoshima which tried to spoil Fujimi's effort, which Aoshima succeeded?

Anyway, it takes 8-10 months to release a plastic model, from budget approval to shipment of the mass-produced kits. And that's still fast, compared to Revell or Ebbro. Only Tamiya (and probably Bandai) can do it shorter, like 6 months, because they have in-house design department, mold tooling shop, and manufacturing factory, while the other model companies don't.

Fujimi announced the McLaren F1 road car on May 3rd, 2013, followed by Aoshima's announcement about the Long Tail kit on May 16 at the hobby show. Fujimi kit came out in August, so there was only 3 months in-between. There's no way Fujimi could release the F1 road car kit in response to Aoshima's announcement. Maybe the Long Tail kit (which came out in October), but there're only three sprues that are common, so most of the parts had to be designed from scratch much earlier (even the inner door panels aren't the same between the road car and long tail kits).
I rather think, all these McLaren releases (including MFH's resin kits) are due to change of licensing requirements and cost on McLaren's side in 2012.

Rushed kits have poor fitment and unfinished surface, as you may have seen in photos of pre-production samples posted on Aoshima's Facebook page.
Fujimi's McLaren F1 kits don't have any of those characteristics. As Steve says, Fujimi's McLaren kits can be built into decent curbside models -- fitment is good, and all parts are in production quality.

I really don't think Fujimi is that smart (maybe slightly above average in marketing). Instead, I think it's more like Aoshima's item choice, marketing, and development speed has a room to improve, and this gap (slightly above and below average) gives the impression that Fujimi is a better marketer than Aoshima. But this's only about the McLaren F1 kits. These companies have been winner and loser in head-on competition in other items in other genre, so it's not like one company is deliberately trying to spoil another.

I guess my timeline is affected by how I get news from Japan. You may be closer to sources and have easier time
understanding Japanese. I've found out about Fujimi plans to release MP4/2 at HobbySearch web site. Aoshima's hints
about MP4/2 were evident earlier on their FaceBook page. So, for me Aoshima seemed first to announce MP4/2 kit.
It could be different for you if you had known Fujimi plans earlier from different source(s). Same was the case for F1-GTR
long tail. I saw Aoshima's hints and prototype photos on their FaceBook page before I have seen any news from
Fujimi. However, I wouldn't argue too much about "who spoiled whom" and assume it all is just a coincidence in time.

Originally Posted by jano11

Exactly, through the years Fujimi contributed a lot to the model building community especially by releasing kits that no one else ever bothered to release before them, and they did and still do cash in for being the first out on the market.
When Fujimi started producing the 1/20 scale F1 kits, they did it because they saw an opportunity, took it and cashed in on it. I say well done.

I have a lot of appreciation to Fujimi, which I have expressed in different other threads and forums, especially for their role in resurrection of 1/20
Formula One models market. I have actually successfully built number of their Formula One car kits. My "complains" come from my affection for
McLaren F1 and F1-GTR cars. I just don't think Fujimi kits are good enough. Certainly not good enough for me, after 20 years of waiting for plastic kit of
F1 & F1-GTR. That's all.

Originally Posted by ZoomZoomMX-5

I'm 99.99999999% positive the Fujimi kit will blow my old crap resin kit out of the water. For less than half what I spent over 10 years ago.

I don't think it is really fair to compare that old Profil24 kit to modern kits. MFH F1-GTR kit would be a more relevant one to compare to. And I do rather compare Fujimi
and Aoshima kits to MFH kits. MFH kits at present represent the most sophisticated and accurate design of F1-GTR for me.

Originally Posted by ZoomZoomMX-5

It's all in perspective, now we have 2 plastic companies that offer McLaren F1's, and people get silly proclaiming one company is making manna from heaven and the other one is putting poop in a box. Trust me, anyone ragging on Fujimi...go get yourself an early Profil24 F1, build it, and get back with me

I don't want to build Profil24 kit, though I have Modeler's kit to build. But I'm building MFH kit at present. And I can assure you it is
better then both Fujimi and Aoshima kits in terms of detail and accuracy.

Originally Posted by stevenoble

Got to say that I think you are wrong to say the Fujimi kit is sh*t. I've built it and it made a reasonably nice kerbside model which was all I wanted from it. Sure, it's not as accurate or as detailed as the Aoshima kit, no one is disputing that. But to say it's sh*t is a bit harsh.
Not everyone wants a balls out, high detail kit. The McLaren was a kit that I wanted to build, but I wasn't mad about it, so the Fujimi kit was right for me. If it wasn't for Fujimi kick starting 1/20 plastic again some years ago then there wouldn't be any 1/20 plastic. We had nothing from Tamiya for years and still not a great deal now.
They have practically abandoned the scale altogether. So I think we should be thanking Fujimi for what they did when they kept it alive.

Again I congratulate and salute Fujimi when they do great job on the kit. And this is mostly the case for their 1/20 kits. However until you get Aoshima F1-GTR kit in your hands
and just do a dry fit of it, you're missing my points. I have done dry fit of Fujimi's F1 road car kit and I wasn't happy at all about fit, detail level and overall design. I doubt their
F1-GTR long tail is any better. I guess Fujimi kit is good enough for you, but it is not good enough for me.

Originally Posted by John18d

Jano - while you might think Fujimi's marketing is better (in the short run) - they will lose in the long run as modelers realize the low detail and high inaccuracies and high price of the Fujimi kits - people will rather wait for the better quality more accurate better detailed kits from Aoshima and Tamiya.

I have fallen into that group and will never buy another Fujimi kit
John

I'm happy to learn others do appreciate Aoshima's efforts to put out better designed, more detailed and more accurate kits, and would rather wait for it as long as it takes.
Though, I wouldn't go to extremes myself and not buy any Fujimi kits, but I might not buy those which are poorly designed, inaccurate and have better alternatives available.

[jano11]

Originally Posted by lezdep

I have a lot of appreciation to Fujimi, which I have expressed in different other threads and forums, especially for their role in resurrection of 1/20
Formula One models market. I have actually successfully built number of their Formula One car kits. My "complains" come from my affection for
McLaren F1 and F1-GTR cars. I just don't think Fujimi kits are good enough. Certainly not good enough for me, after 20 years of waiting for plastic kit of
F1 & F1-GTR. That's all.

Seems to me that it is an issue of expectations vs delivered product, waiting for it for 20, 30, or 3v3n 40 years shouldn't be a reason for getting the perfect kit.
Fujimi need to make a profitable business, otherwise they will go out of business and we would lose a bunch of other kits they make.

Originally Posted by lezdep

And I do rather compare Fujimi and Aoshima kits to MFH kits. MFH kits at present represent the most sophisticated and accurate design of F1-GTR for me.

I don't want to build Profil24 kit, though I have Modeler's kit to build. But I'm building MFH kit at present. And I can assure you it is
better then both Fujimi and Aoshima kits in terms of detail and accuracy.

The quality vs price ratio of the the Fujimi McLaren F1 kit is at least as good as that of the MFH kit, not to mention that many enthusiasts around the world just can not afford a 300 Euro kit!

I've got the MFH kit of the F1 GTR and will build it one day, not top of my list, however I do not consider the Fujimi one to be as bad as it being made too out to be. We all have the skills to make adjustments to a 30 Euro worth plastic kit and make it look that much better if we want it to look better.