BMW to buy Lancia...

[Stefanel1]

Crayzayjay : I didn't say that RWD were better than FWD....

[Hudson]

But not when sales of the less expensive product (read: less profitable) eats away at the more expensive product's (read: more profitable) volume. If it's all incremental volume, then I agree. But I don't see how this will be even close to all incremental volume.

[crayzayjay]

Originally posted by Stefanel1
Crayzayjay : I didn't say that RWD were better than FWD....

My mistake

[crayzayjay]

Originally posted by Hudson
But not when sales of the less expensive product (read: less profitable) eats away at the more expensive product's (read: more profitable) volume. If it's all incremental volume, then I agree. But I don't see how this will be even close to all incremental volume.

Like I said it all depends on whether you think there would be sales cannibalisation, which is where we’re disagreeing. You think there will be, I think it will be so small its negligible. Incremental volume would be great, but BMW cant sell 200 thousand more cars p.a. without diluting their image, which is why they need a different brand, as they’ve done with the Mini. And I don’t see the problem with giving away some margin to grow volume. It comes down to earnings growth and this is a method of achieving it.

[Hudson]

Originally posted by crayzayjay
Like I said it all depends on whether you think there would be sales cannibalisation, which is where we’re disagreeing. You think there will be, I think it will be so small its negligible....

Volkswagen thought the sales cannibalization of of SEAT and Skoda would be minimal...and they're learning otherwise. I just can't imagine that a large number of people wouldn't want to save a couple grand (dollars, euros, etc) to get a very similar vehicle in quality, features, and character with a Lancia-badged BMW knock-off. If they're going to expand BMW's production base, they should do it with a product that's decidely different. Expanding Mini upwards is a good start with a front-wheel drive lineup. Combining Honda and BMW is another excellent idea. Perhaps absorbing one of the small Indian makers would work (as long as you don't dilute the BMW name by saying something like "Tata by BMW").

BMW still has a way to go to catch up to Mercedes-Benz on volume..and until that happens, they don't "need" another brand.

[crayzayjay]

Like I said with VW, I think the problem there was that the cross-brand cars are so obviously related you’d struggle to tell them apart. People may well choose to buy a BMW that isn’t a BMW – more individual, saving a few grand, and knowing you’re still driving a top notch car! If I was in the market for an Alfa it would sure as hell make me think..

A Honda merger is not a bad idea, but catching MB volumes is precisely why BMW needs a new brand.

[Hudson]

Originally posted by crayzayjay
A Honda merger is not a bad idea, but catching MB volumes is precisely why BMW needs a new brand.

My thought on a potential Honda "merger" with BMW (I picture it in a similar way that I see the "merger" between Daimler-Benz and Chrysler Corporation) is that the two companies could use their economies of scale on the engine, marketing, and distribution sides. BMW has an all rear-wheel drive based lineup (excepting the Mini) and Honda has an all front-wheel drive based lineup (excepting the S2000). With Honda's Acura brand (in North America) giving up the "luxury" market to the likes of Lexus, Infiniti, Mercedes-Benz and, yes, BMW...they need something in their lineup above the TL (the niche NSX doesn't really count in this discussion). With BMW's lineup starting with the 1-Series, about mid-level in the Honda lineup, the more prestigious BMW brand can secure the near-luxury/luxury market while the Honda brand would continue in the mass-market market. Mini would get Honda engineering input and remain the stand-alone niche brand.

I don't see how BMW buying Lancia would help BMW catch Mercedes-Benz' volumes any better. Honda's near luxury products (Acura in North America) provide a few hundred thousand more units globally. With Honda's more than 3 million global units and BMW's one million (and both companies growing), the combined Honda-BMW Motor Company would be within striking distance of the troubled DaimlerChrysler.

If you were to compare the world's vehicle producers on cars (some SUVs are included) alone, the rankings would be surprising:

1. Volkswagen (4th in total light vehicles)
2. General Motors (1st)
3. Toyota (3rd)
4. Renault-Nissan (5th)
5. Ford Motor Company (2nd)
6. PSA Peugeot-Citroen (7th)
7. Honda Motor Company (8th)
8. DaimlerChrysler (6th)
9. Hyundai (9th)
10. Fiat (10th)

13. BMW (13th)

Honda is already larger than DaimlerChrysler on this measure, but add Honda and BMW together, and they become larger than PSA and just behind Ford.

Hey, but it's just my plan for BMW's and Honda's long-term growth and survival.

[crayzayjay]

Hyundai at 9th is surprising..

Youre right a Honda BM agreement does makes sense, but who makes the decisions? I think theyd fight about that for a long time
still id love to see Lancia taken under BM's wings
still reeling from hyundai at 9th..

[Jimster]

Korea is a big market to supply plus they sell pretty well in the States and Australia as well. Those are really the only markets they do all that well in- I remember when they were the 6th biggest selling brand in NZ and then within two years fell down to about 12th thats what happens when you axe the Lantra wagon out of your range

[crayzayjay]

Never heard of the Lantra... dont think i want to

[Hudson]

The Lantra is sold in the US as the Elantra.

Hyundai is a large company and probably the fastest growing of the world's major car makers.

[THA]

Although BMW owns the Triumph car brand, it does not own the Triumph motorcycle brand. Triumph motorcycles is very much alive and well, and has been awarded UK brand of the year very recently (http://www.triumph.co.uk/uk/135_1413.aspx). If you are only into cars, previous winners include Jaguar and Land Rover.

I'm not denying BMW could try and do something with the Triumph car brand, but since it has not done so (yet) and a UK company is trading globally in the motor-sector using the Triumph name, it might be tricky from a positioning point of view if nothing else!

Plus (as a UK resident) I am not sure the Triumph brand would translate that well to a modern car, but that's a personal opinion.

[disomma]

lancia is worth saving, maybe not by BMW, but by some one. they have marketability just based on their history. has anyone noticed the sheer number of websites dedicated to all types of lancias? don't these people buy cars? the brand has to be marketed correctly. the recent fulvia concept is a great idea. it just has to be executed correctly. if lancia could capitalize on names like fulvia, delta, and monte carlo in the short run, and possibly stratos down the line, and do it smartly and economically, it could have a future. the real problem is that it is run by fiat.

[johan72]

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