F1 Braking System

[amanichen]

Originally Posted by NewyorkKopter

lol true. He did use hydraulic brakes, and a hydraulic clutch though But anyways so it was just two wires housing cables running from the shifter to the gearbox?

Hydraulics allow for force multiplication. There's no way you'd be able to stop your car or deform the clutch pressure plate using leg strength alone. Operating a gearbox takes much less force.

[carbuilder2002]

Originally Posted by amanichen

Hydraulics allow for force multiplication. There's no way you'd be able to stop your car or deform the clutch pressure plate using leg strength alone. Operating a gearbox takes much less force.

You evidently have never driven a Vintage Bentley my boy. No hydraulics there lol. Mind they do have 14" long brake and clutch pedals to give the leverage. Not an option in an F1.

[NewyorkKopter]

good point. Shifting gears does require less force.

[amanichen]

Originally Posted by carbuilder2002

You evidently have never driven a Vintage Bentley my boy. No hydraulics there lol. Mind they do have 14" long brake and clutch pedals to give the leverage. Not an option in an F1.

No, I haven't. Hydraulics are used because they offer advantages OTHER than vehicle packaging and layout. Those Bentley brakes were probably quite underpowered by today's standards, if not by "vintage" standards.

By today's standards you would need a ridiculously long lever to even approach the force multiplication possible with hydraulics. If you somehow managed to put a 14" brake lever in an F1 you still wouldn't approach the force multiplication possible with hydraulics.

Another point is reliability: hydraulics are fairly reliable for high force applications, and unless they catastrophicly fail, you generally have some reserve braking capacity, whereas a cable doesn't do anything once it has failed.

[carbuilder2002]

I was not suggesting the mac could have used mechanical brakes. The old bentleys have 400mm drum brakes and massive leverage through multiplying levers. I had one tested at a modern MOT testing station and it produced a better braking force than my then ABS equiped ford scorpion. Mind the 1 3/4 ton weight may have helped a lot.
Still scary to try and stop though, you need to think ahead for different reasons than the F1. A modern car would not impede its progress much.

[NewyorkKopter]

Alright I just want to make sure on the following things before this thread completeley dies.

The McLaren F1's...

-Brakes, were unassisted with two master cylinders(Front and Rear) with seperate fluid containers

-Clutch, was hydraulically operated in which when you pushed the clutch pedal it would push the master cylinder forcing the fluid outward to push a slave cylinder connected to the fork in the clutch bell housing

-Shift linkage, composed of two wires housing a single cable each (one for the up/down motion and one for the side-to-side motion) running from the shifter to the gearbox.

and finally...the two master cylinders for the brakes and one for the hydraulic clutch make for a total of 3 master cylinders each of which connect to seperate fluid resevoirs in the front compartment.

Is that all correct?Thankss

[carbuilder2002]

That would be a correct rundown. The only addition I can make is that the two gear linkage cables run in seperate cable sheaths to the gearbox.
Each master cylinder has it's own remote mounted fluid resevoir and each ov the 2 brake master cylinders are linked independantly and directly to the brake pedal.
This last comment is more an assumption than true knowledge but the rear master cykinder may be a slightly different size to the front at there will normally be less pressure required on the rear brakes, but as I say that is just assumption not proven fact.

[Mcl@ren]

Caruilder >>>>

Is the balance bar not suppose to dissipate the pressure from the pedal to the master cylinders according to the setting of the balance bar ?

But thinking about it, i would also think that a different size master cylinder would make sense.

[Noddy]

Originally Posted by Mcl@ren

Caruilder >>>>

Is the balance bar not suppose to dissipate the pressure from the pedal to the master cylinders according to the setting of the balance bar ?

But thinking about it, i would also think that a different size master cylinder would make sense.

Balance bars are really only intended for fine-tuning, the bore sizes of the master cylinders are the "real" means of distributing the braking force.

[carbuilder2002]

Yep true, usually a balance bar is adjustable from the drivers seat. The master cylinders are usually different sizes larger for the front smaller for the rear.
Maybe someone can clarify this? In the GTR's on the R/H pod beside the main instrument cluster is a large round knob, this would seem to be perfectly placed to be the balance bar adjustment?

[NewyorkKopter]

ohh true. Thanks for that

[webslinger283]

Question about the Handbrake. I was going though my pictures and noticed that I can not find one picture with the handbrake in the up or engaged position. Is there some unique feature to the handle to allow the driver easy access to the center seat without having the handbrake in the up position? Or do none of the McLaren F1 owners use them right before taking a picture? Thanks in advance for any thoughts or insight!

[Peloton25]

Quite a few cars employ what is called a fly-off handbrake, also found in the F1. Basically you pull it up like any other car to engage it, but the handle doesn't remain in that position. It locks the cam in place that has pulled the cable taught, and then you can press the handle back down to remain flush with the chassis for ease of getting in and out of the car. To disengage the parking brake you'd pull the handle up again to its point of engagement (no resistance on the up stroke) and then press and hold the button while lowering it to release the brake. I think I have a picture of the handbrake in an elevated position, but you are correct that there wouldn't be many.

>8^)
ER

[roger_ph]

Originally Posted by webslinger283

Question about the Handbrake. I was going though my pictures and noticed that I can not find one picture with the handbrake in the up or engaged position. Is there some unique feature to the handle to allow the driver easy access to the center seat without having the handbrake in the up position? Or do none of the McLaren F1 owners use them right before taking a picture? Thanks in advance for any thoughts or insight!

This picture shows the handbrake lever in its upper position: [img=http://img279.imagevenue.com/loc340/th_821520766_P1000847_122_340lo.JPG]