Peugeot 307WRC "Janika"

[hofy26]

One of our drivers Favorites, the seven-time Hungarian champion, jr. Janos Toth"Janika" your 307WRC (2006 Mecsek-Rallye).














Sorry for the bad english! :-)

[sziklakks]

Very nice bild !

[rallymaster]

Very nice model, of course as a Peugeot fan I can only like it.
But your reference picture prooves that I'm right saying painting so heavy black panel lines on a model is pure mistaking of reality !!

[pawlie]

Very nice build hofy! I really like the interior, the switches are great.

[MidMazar]

Welcome to AF. Beautiful model. What company makes these decals?

[hd221813]

Very very nice and clean build! However, my favorite livery for this car remains this:

[keefr22]

Originally Posted by rallymaster

:
But your reference picture prooves that I'm right saying painting so heavy black panel lines on a model is pure mistaking of reality !!

That would be your opinion - I think the model almost perfectly replicates the panel lines shown in the reference picture - I had to look twice at the first model picture as I thought it was a studio shot of the real car - beautiful work!! I do accept the close up of the front makes the panel lines look a little wide, but then there isn't a close up comparison of the same area of the real car - they could be the same!

How wide & deep a panel line looks on a real car will depend on how good the panel fit is after all, but they always look black....!!

Whatever, that's a stunning model!!

Keef

[rallymaster]

Originally Posted by keefr22

That would be your opinion - I think the model almost perfectly replicates the panel lines shown in the reference picture - I had to look twice at the first model picture as I thought it was a studio shot of the real car - beautiful work!! I do accept the close up of the front makes the panel lines look a little wide, but then there isn't a close up comparison of the same area of the real car - they could be the same!

How wide & deep a panel line looks on a real car will depend on how good the panel fit is after all, but they always look black....!!

Whatever, that's a stunning model!!

Keef

Keef,
that's more than an opinion, that's a fact from reality observation, anyone who knows real cars know that there isn't really any black line between panels (like surrounding visible on windows), it's only some dark due to light effects, and if as you said you have looked at the reference pic above you can't seriously say there isn't any difference, just only the door line shows there shouldn't be any black, just prooving that's precisely where you're not right saying they always look black, and sorry to say that no need to have close-up comparison to say that no there couldn't be the same in the front as NEVER there will be any black inside the panels lines as modelers do it on models like the one of this thread (and that's not a build value judgement of any kind).
Panels lines don't inevitably appear black precisely because they are barely visible not to say invisible under full light (still refering to door line of Jano's 307 ref pic, for example)








I'm not prentending than lights effects shouldn't be reproduced on models, but I'm saying than adding black paint lines, especially thick ones, is simply unrealistic and inaccurate.
Take also a look at the Expert model shown above, no thick black lines but deepened panel lines (or subtle panels lines ??), and guess which one seem the most accurate ?
Panels lines only seem accurate and realistic when they are barely visible.
If you see it as a real paint line it's not realistic as there isn't any on real car.

I agree with you it's a really beautiful model. but a beautiful model with too heavy unrealistic panel lines according to tons of ref pics you can find here or there.
Everyone choose his own way to build models, I'm not saying there is only one way (and surely not according to mine) to build them, I like this car very much too, I just wanted to share my feeling many good modelers and builders share more and more often prefering deepening panel lines than painting them.

[keefr22]

Originally Posted by rallymaster

Keef,

No, you can't see black there, because of the angle the photo is taken from! But I do see a thick black bonnet shut line, another on the front of the door, a black boot shut line....

Originally Posted by rallymaster

If it was daylight I'd take a pic of my full size rally Mini - the panel gaps on it are huge, and yes that would realistically represent them! And those on my full size Ibiza Cupra rally car are nearly as wide. And yes, they are black, very black!! As I said, with no comparison pic of the full size 307, I don't know what the panel gaps are like. Anyone who knows real rally cars knows that they are damaged & repaired much more than road cars and therefore they often don't have such neat panel gaps! Other things are more important to spend time on. If it's straight it doesn't matter how well the panels fit....!!

Originally Posted by rallymaster

I agree with you it's a really beautiful model. but a beautiful model with too heavy unrealistic panel lines according to tons of ref pics you can find here or there

So we'll just have to both agree & disagree then!!

Originally Posted by rallymaster

I just wanted to share my feeling many good modelers and builders share more and more often prefering deepening panel lines than painting them.

As you say there's more than one way to build & finish a model, & to me a beautifully finished model car with just deep panel lines on areas like bonnet & door shuts the same colour as the body look totally unrealistic - real cars I know just don't look like that....!!

All the best
Keef

[CHIPPY06]

Bloody hell its like the jeremy kyle show !! i think model looks superb and looks great in that livery , congrats mate .

[keefr22]

Originally Posted by CHIPPY06

Bloody hell its like the jeremy kyle show !! i think model looks superb and looks great in that livery , congrats mate .

Yep, that says it all...!! (although I've never seen the J.Kyle show!!)

Keef

[rallymaster]

It seems that we really don't have the same way to appreciate reality, but more than this not the same way to appreciate what such rally car really is !

Originally Posted by keefr22

No, you can't see black there, because of the angle the photo is taken from!

what precisely says that they DO NOT ALWAYS seem black, so ??
just what I wanted you to say

Originally Posted by keefr22

But I do see a thick black bonnet shut line, another on the front of the door, a black boot shut line....
If it was daylight I'd take a pic of my full size rally Mini - the panel gaps on it are huge, and yes that would realistically represent them! And those on my full size Ibiza Cupra rally car are nearly as wide. And yes, they are black, very black!!

Hmm would you say that you have 2,4 cm gap between your body panel on your real cars...??
because 1m gap on this model would be 24mm on real car !!??
are you really realizing what 2.4 cm is on such car ??

Originally Posted by keefr22

As I said, with no comparison pic of the full size 307, I don't know what the panel gaps are like. Anyone who knows real rally cars knows that they are damaged & repaired much more than road cars and therefore they often don't have such neat panel gaps! Other things are more important to spend time on. If it's straight it doesn't matter how well the panels fit....!!

"Anyone knowing rally cars" aren't inevitable people knowing what WRC cars really are and I sincerely doubt you really know what a WRC is with such arguments, because I never saw a WRC, being repaired or not, having 24 mm gap between panels and you have a chocking way to report what a WRC is not to say a rally car in general !! because talking for myself even on our private cars we never tolerated such gap between panels and those cars were far from a WRC !!
WRC aren't stock cars...
I spent enough time with and among mechanics and engineers (most from peugeot and citroen) on test days or rally events to see how much they care to have everything fitting and perfectly new and in good condition.
What can't be repaired as new is simply replaced !!
So I don't need comparison pics to know it.
So talk probably for your own cars but WRC aren't your own cars and don't have 24 mm gap between panels !!

Originally Posted by keefr22

As you say there's more than one way to build & finish a model, & to me a beautifully finished model car with just deep panel lines on areas like bonnet & door shuts the same colour as the body look totally unrealistic - real cars I know just don't look like that....!!

All the best
Keef

And would that not be your opinion ?
If panel lines are deepened, they won't look same body color if light condition allow to see it, exactly like on real cars. Precisely what I wanted to mean from the start.
Thick black panel lines only let us see it like it would be under special light conditions, whereas under other light condition or other angle it won't appear the same as you said it yourself concerning the ref pic I reposted above.

light panel lines are nice and most often improve look of the model, but panel lines that would be like a 2,4 cm black line on a real WRC (not talking about a private own car you build and repair like you want ) is totally unaccurate and unrealistic.

Most perfect scale models shown here and there simply proove it, and most famous builders seem to agree on that according to models they show (I myself several times considered both options wondering what is the best and my today consideration is resulting of such observations here and there from expert modelers and most beautiful models I've seen as much as from my WRC cars knowlegde and experience), once more simply refer to the Expert 307 posted above. This is perfect panel lines to me.

But it seems we won't agree on how to appreciate reality.
I'm just affraid of what you rally cars look like if they have 24mm gap between al panel lines !!!

[keefr22]

As I said we agree it's a beautiful model but obviously will continue to disagree about reality!

I think we've hijacked hofy26's thread quite enough, so I'll say no more, other than good night & happy panel lines...!!

Keef

[rallymaster]

Originally Posted by keefr22

As I said we agree it's a beautiful model but obviously will continue to disagree about reality!

I think we've hijacked hofy26's thread quite enough, so I'll say no more, other than good night & happy panel lines...!!

Keef

it's hard to disagree about reality though, which only is reality !
but for sure we have a different way to appreciate it.

You're right, this thread isn't the place for such neverending matter many modelers and builders have.

Most important thing is to have great looking models and this 307 is a great model.

[craigus]

Hofy26 - Great model, looks very realistic, Great pictures also. The panel lines look fine to me by the way