XP5 Steering Wheel Centre Piece on Ebay

[D.Curran]

For any interested members, I bring to your attention the above item.

It is Ebay item number 200585410055.

[Peloton25]

The fact that the holes are not placed correctly just kills it for me.

Ideally I'd want to buy a Personal steering wheel like this one that mimics the F1 LM wheel and then mount the F1 wheel center to it. Then I'd put it all inside a glass-encased frame with a light shining down from above and just gaze at it in awe.

However, all the Personal steering wheels are pre-drilled with the holes in the correct place which would make this wheel center sit crooked.


Enough about my wants though. I think the bigger issue here is provenance for this part and the whether the claim that this wheel center was fitted to XP5 can actually be proven true.

I can tell you that I've looked through all the imagery I have of XP5 and just don't see any indication that XP5 ever had a steering wheel fitted that was drilled in this lopsided manner.

Here is the earliest interior shot of XP5 that I've come across so far and you can clearly see the holes are located in the correct positions. If you look very closely you'll see the design of the wheel center is different than the ones production F1s have - it lacks the black and chrome 'F1/V12' logo, instead opting for an embossed one made of solid carbon, similar to what was seen on the Clinic Model.



Sharp eyed viewers will also note the prototype nature of some of the other parts in that photo as well like the missing 'Hazard' button and grey plastic instrument cluster surround.

This video shot in Japan in 1993 with Mika Hakkinen again gives a decent view of the earliest XP5 steering wheel center if you look closely around the 3:20 mark.

http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/hnqhbX0e--4/

No doubt XP5's heavy use probably meant it had more than one wheel center in its life, but again, all the other images I have showing it with the proper production 'F1/V12' wheel center have it drilled correctly. If someone can find an image that I've overlooked that does make the case, please present it here. I never mind being proven wrong because the upside is that I get to learn something new in the process.

Back to this part - I really think there is a much better chance that this piece was a reject due to improper orientation of the center logo and thus it was binned and later retrieved, or simply given away. My belief is that at some point someone came up with the idea of connecting this piece to XP5 - the most famous of all the road cars - simply to increase its value. Certainly calling it a 'reject' would have had a detrimental effect and I doubt most people would know enough to make this determination on their own.

Now I'm not implying that the current owner of the part (I assume that's you D.Curran) is making up the story here. I definitely recall the last time this piece came up for sale when it was offered in late 2003 on Ebay. At the time it had the very same pink 'XP5' marking on the back of it.

That's my anyway - buyer beware - yadda, yadda, yadda...

>8^)
ER

[Le Man]

Originally Posted by Peloton25

The fact that the holes are not placed correctly just kills it for me.

Ideally I'd want to buy a Personal steering wheel like this one that mimics the F1 LM wheel and then mount the F1 wheel center to it. Then I'd put it all inside a glass-encased frame with a light shining down from above and just gaze at it in awe.

However, all the Personal steering wheels are pre-drilled with the holes in the correct place which would make this wheel center sit crooked.


Enough about my wants though. I think the bigger issue here is provenance for this part and the whether the claim that this wheel center was fitted to XP5 can actually be proven true.

I can tell you that I've looked through all the imagery I have of XP5 and just don't see any indication that XP5 ever had a steering wheel fitted that was drilled in this lopsided manner.

Here is the earliest interior shot of XP5 that I've come across so far and you can clearly see the holes are located in the correct positions. If you look very closely you'll see the design of the wheel center is different than the ones production F1s have - it lacks the black and chrome 'F1/V12' logo, instead opting for an embossed one made of solid carbon, similar to what was seen on the Clinic Model.



Sharp eyed viewers will also note the prototype nature of some of the other parts in that photo as well like the missing 'Hazard' button and grey plastic instrument cluster surround.

This video shot in Japan in 1993 with Mika Hakkinen again gives a decent view of the earliest XP5 steering wheel center if you look closely around the 3:20 mark.

http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/hnqhbX0e--4/

No doubt XP5's heavy use probably meant it had more than one wheel center in its life, but again, all the other images I have showing it with the proper production 'F1/V12' wheel center have it drilled correctly. If someone can find an image that I've overlooked that does make the case, please present it here. I never mind being proven wrong because the upside is that I get to learn something new in the process.

Back to this part - I really think there is a much better chance that this piece was a reject due to improper orientation of the center logo and thus it was binned and later retrieved, or simply given away. My belief is that at some point someone came up with the idea of connecting this piece to XP5 - the most famous of all the road cars - simply to increase its value. Certainly calling it a 'reject' would have had a detrimental effect and I doubt most people would know enough to make this determination on their own.

Now I'm not implying that the current owner of the part (I assume that's you D.Curran) is making up the story here. I definitely recall the last time this piece came up for sale when it was offered in late 2003 on Ebay. At the time it had the very same pink 'XP5' marking on the back of it.

That's my anyway - buyer beware - yadda, yadda, yadda...

>8^)
ER

Originally Posted by D.Curran

For any interested members, I bring to your attention the above item.

It is Ebay item number 200585410055.

Nice reject!!

"NOTE TO SELLER"

Not sure if you have been informed incorrectly about the provenance of the part, but I think you really need to add photographic evidence to your description as proof of which F1 it was fitted to , if at all.

Btw, the countersunk holes are pre moulded, its the badge that has been misaligned.

.................................................. .................................................

Erik,

That steering wheel you have linked is not the same type thats used in the F1LM and 95, 96 GTR,s. Its the Grinta model that you will need to purchase, to replicate exactly your requirements .

That vendor is borderline on stating the truth in his sales blurb as well, to me it seems he has also set out to deceive potential buyers .

[hurstg01]

Linky


Martin, good to see you back on here

[Le Man]

Originally Posted by hurstg01

Linky


Martin, good to see you back on here

Yes my friend, its been a while, but I will try and get back to my usual posting frequency .

[D.Curran]

Indeed, I am the owner.

It is true that this piece, at some point, was ultimately rejected.

When I was purchasing it, I challenged the vendor on authenticity - and he eventually explained how he came about it. While this story cannot be verified, at least not easily, I have the engineer's name, address (I paid by cheque) and our correspondence.

My listing simply summarises the correspondence which I trust to be true. There is no reason to be unnecessarily hostile...

[Peloton25]

Originally Posted by D.Curran

Indeed, I am the owner.

It is true that this piece, at some point, was ultimately rejected.

When I was purchasing it, I challenged the vendor on authenticity - and he eventually explained how he came about it. While this story cannot be verified, at least not easily, I have the engineer's name, address (I paid by cheque) and our correspondence.

My listing simply summarises the correspondence which I trust to be true. There is no reason to be unnecessarily hostile...

I don't believe anyone has been hostile - necessarily or unnecessarily.

I certainly was not.

I simply presented the proof that I have that XP5's steering wheel hub has, since the earliest known point in its history, never been drilled in an offset fashion that would allow the fitment of this improperly produced steering hub cap. Then I expressed my theory and opinion of the part based on that proof and challenged anyone else to prove that theory wrong. You are welcome to do what you please with that information, as can any potential buyer who may happen to discover it as well.

I bought a carbon fiber keyring for the F1 once that a similar 'factory technician' claimed was a legit F1 part. It was unique and I had never seen another, but I took him at his word.

After showing it to the man himself, Gordon Murray, not long after I got it, GM said he'd never seen anything like it before and that they had never mixed the McLaren International logo (the Swoosh) with anything for the F1. That left me a bit disappointed, especially since the piece had not been what anyone would describe as "inexpensive".

I still have it, I still like it too, but if I were offering it for sale to someone else based on the info I have now, I would not misrepresent it with the description I had been provided when I purchased it. I have too much integrity for that.

>8^)
ER

[D.Curran]

Kindly note that I did not suggest that the steering wheel was drilled in an alternative fashion, rather that the centre piece was briefly on the car in the wrong orientation.

I value the importance of skepticism, indeed, I was skeptical when buying the centre piece. I used this to receive some degree of provenance when completing the sale, and for the moment, am happy with it.

[Le Man]

Originally Posted by D.Curran

Indeed, I am the owner.

It is true that this piece, at some point, was ultimately rejected.

When I was purchasing it, I challenged the vendor on authenticity - and he eventually explained how he came about it. While this story cannot be verified, at least not easily, I have the engineer's name, address (I paid by cheque) and our correspondence.

My listing simply summarises the correspondence which I trust to be true. There is no reason to be unnecessarily hostile...

Are you saying that I,m being hostile?

You state in your listing on Ebay, that you are very willing to supply high res images of said part and that you are located in Dublin, Ireland. Correct YES? then would you be so kind to post some high res images on this very forum, of said part with one very important addition. Please supply some pics of said part postioned on the front of a recently published Dublin newspaper showing its date, Thankyou.

[murraydeschot]

I can fully appreciate the concerns over the credibility and provenance of this item.

It's from McLaren's factory, that's accepted. However, given both the claims made over it's history as well as it's very high value, I can appreciate why it's important that details have to be ascertained if posting on the AF F1 page ... the reputation of this forum should always remain professional and unsullied and I'm sure the motivations of the posters above are simply to establish the authenticity of an item that has been posted for sale by a brand new member of this forum.

[Le Man]

^^^^ Yes Murray,

A brand new member thats been lurking since Nov 2005 and only 3 posts, which are all in this very thread. Something does not quite sit right with me here .

[hurstg01]

SOLD for £400.........

[carbuilder2002]

ouch expensive with no documentation of provenance

[Peloton25]

I'd consider the evidence presented here as completely contradictory to any shred of provenance, other than it was a piece that deserved to go in the bin, and probably did until no one was looking. Any connection to XP5 seems beyond dubious.

I'd be fairly disappointed if I found these details after shelling out 400 of anything worth more than a dime. Can't even imagine spending £400.

>8^)
ER