97 3.3L 140k - Transmission failure without limp mode?

[Mbriggs]

I thought that when the 4 speed tranny failed, it was supposed to go into limp mode.
I've owned many Caravans but this is new. Driving tonight, car started shifting a little funny between overdive and third so I put it in 3rd gear. 5 miles later, the tranny slipped out of gear, and started making very nasty grinding noises. While pulling over, it would grab and then slip, still making horrible sounds. Put it in park, engine sounds fine. Turned off and let it set, turned on same issues. Got it into a parking lot, would not go into reverse, just lots of nasty noise. There was no fluid underneath.

Has anyone else experienced a complete tranny failure while driving? I've put more than 750k miles on Caravans, never happened before. Lots of limp mode driving but nothing like this.

[mikefaster]

Bearings and planetary gears don't last forever... Limp modes only occur due to electronic problems... I HAVE brought these trannys back to life by ONLY changing electronic parts when limp modes occur, but when there is a ton of mileage, things will go wrong eventually...

This is why when people get "rebuilds" they usually re-use the planetary gears(if they are still "good"), so they will have double the mileage when the second rebuild is necessary...

This is another reason to use "ATF+4" fluid, which is a full synthetic fluid... Most tranny shops use other types of fluids with additives and it is NOT the same... The full synthetic fluid keeps the electronics running properly, but helps protect not only the tranny parts, but the differential parts and bearings...

[Mbriggs]

Thanks for the reply! I have repaired some without a rebuild. Good and honest repairmen have replaced speed sensors and solved other minor issues. I have always used ATF+ fluid but these trannys are weak. Just haven't had one self destruct like this even without the usual 2nd to 3rd shudder issues as a warning. I was just "lucky" that I was only 20 minutes from home.

I guess when your betting a bad hand, your odds will always catch up with you! I bought it for $800, so if I can get a $1.1k rebuild, might be better than an unknown piece of ****.

I'll let you know what the end result is.

Cheers!

[urclueless]

planetary failure is one of the common failures of these transmissions. If you were closer to me I'd give you $500 for the van. I've come up with cheap replacement transmissions for these vans. (junkyard price is under $150 for one with low miles).

If you decide to replace the trans. it is CRUCIAL you flush the trans cooler and make sure you have the hoses routed correctly. Most planetary failures are caused by restricted cooler lines. The return from the cooler feeds the lubrication of the planetary gears.

[mikefaster]

Those that needed repair WITHOUT a rebuild WERE REBUILT...

The fact of the matter is, when it comes to these trannys, that the guys who rebuild them either use MANY of your old parts, or use the plethora of parts they have in stock...

They have EXPENSIVE testers and whatnot to "Test" the sensors... If they are "Good" (albeit for the 1 year warranty), they reuse the old ones or give you someone else crap...

It definitely pays to NOT drive these trannys too far when you experience a problem, because MANY times, if the fluid is clean, chances are it can be fixed without removal...

The right way is around $1100 or $1200 for a guy like me who rebuilds them on the side...

Unfortunately, sometimes people don't wanna pay, so right now I'm doing a $750 installed rebuild and I will be making at least $500... I honestly reuse clutches... The ones that are bad in an old tranny get tossed, and where ever there was NOT a failure, the clutches are usually good...

I have rebuilt someone else's "rebuild" and ONLY bought a seal kit and used whatever I had left over from other 41TE trannys and you REALLY cannot tell the difference when you drive it down the road...

But this is no secret; those rebuilders do this type of stuff to ALL transmissions... It's just that the 41TE tranny is SUCH a pleasure to work on because if you have a problem "electronically" within the warranty period, they can throw in some other electrical parts and it won't cost them a thing and there is no need for removal... The rebuilders REALLY take advantage of people due to Chrysler's excellent design...

That's why these things may last 5 years or 13 months (warranty is up!)...

[urclueless]

there isn't a trans shop in the world including factory remans that replaces EVERY part.

the OP definitely has a catastrophic failure of the planetaries. the cost of rebuilding this trans is going to be very high.

I use to rebuild over 50 of these transmissions per year. Now I can buy guaranteed low miles used ones from the junkyard for under $150.... so just based on my time and materials, it's a no brainer to just buy the JY trans and a quick R&R (less than 2hrs start to finish). sometimes, I even have customers wait while I do their trans replacement. I charge $600 for the trans and labor (including new filter and genuine Mopar ATF---not walmart brand and trans cooler flush)

I'm finding lots in NH for $120 -$250 with under 100,000 miles.

[RIP]

Originally Posted by urclueless

there isn't a trans shop in the world including factory remans that replaces EVERY part.

the OP definitely has a catastrophic failure of the planetaries. the cost of rebuilding this trans is going to be very high.

I use to rebuild over 50 of these transmissions per year. Now I can buy guaranteed low miles used ones from the junkyard for under $150.... so just based on my time and materials, it's a no brainer to just buy the JY trans and a quick R&R (less than 2hrs start to finish). sometimes, I even have customers wait while I do their trans replacement. I charge $600 for the trans and labor (including new filter and genuine Mopar ATF---not walmart brand and trans cooler flush)

I'm finding lots in NH for $120 -$250 with under 100,000 miles.

Just curious. No doubt some older vans are dumped in junk yards due to catastrophic transmission failures that owners don't want to pay to have fixed. How do you weed those out before you get them back to your shop? Can you trust a junk yard guarantee? How do they weed them out? Do they actually tear them down and inspect? Not to say every junk yard is the same but my experience has been mixed at best with junk yard parts.

[urclueless]

I have a lot of experience and knowledge. over the years I've accumulated a wealth of both. Understanding what interchanges, how systems work, performing failure mode analysis, I'm able to determine an application to use, identify good quality part, analyze overall condition.

The junkyards I deal with haven't done me wrong yet on these transmission applications. I have found a load of 1996+ 3.3/3.8 minivan transmissions for dirt cheap. I searched in NH for the OP and found over a dozen in the $120-$250 range

[Mbriggs]

All of the cheap junk yard trannies that I could find had over 120k miles on them and there's no way I'm paying my mechanic to swap one of those in, only to have the same issue shortly down the road. I can get a rebuild with a warranty for just over $1000 so I'm going that route. The 3.3l engines on these are strong, just wish the trannies were. But I knew the risk when I bought the van for $800, hoped that it would last longer.