Sub Frame Welds

[DAVENEWJERSEY]

Originally Posted by OCTO13ER

Let's all remeber that to avoid GM and Chevy products is poor Daves opinion. I myself have owned two Impalas and know many others who have owned them and also frequent forums for Impalas and have yet to hear of "poor and missing welds" on any GM products from anyone other than poor Dave. We all feel sorry for you but in my opinion you are trying to sabotage a good product and probably drive a Ford. You've never owned a Chevy, have you? Go bad mouth Chevys on your own forum, Ford Boy. We're on to your ploys.

IGNORE THE MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN!!!

I OWN A 2001 CHEVROLET IMPALA WITH DEFECTIVE SUB FRAME WELDING.
THE DEFECTIVE SUB FRAME WELDING ON THE 2001 CHEVY IMPALA CAUSES FLEXING AT THE POOR WELDS WHICH RESULTS IN LOUD SNAPPING NOISES WHEN TURNING THE STEERING WHEEL AT VERY LOW SPEED AND WHILE NOT MOVING AT ALL.
You would think an american car manufacturer would want to repair this manufacturer defect. Any car maker should not allow defective welding to exist. Same with that major problem Chevrolet Impala's have with the intermediate steering shaft. Wouldn't it be right to have all defective steering shafts replaced? General Motors should offer to correct the sub frame welding and steering shaft defects.

[ogre73]

Originally Posted by DAVENEWJERSEY

...but they will try a super glue type fix on the welds to reduce their cost.

By your own words, you say a super glue "type" of fix. This does not imply that they actually use a glue. It could very easily mean that they are going to use a different type of metal alloy or a different weld rod or something of the sort to try to repair the weld joints that already exist. It would almost be the same as "reflow" in soldering electronics. They may try this as opposed to inserting a specially designed and expensively machined bracket that would most likely be overkill.

You may have been upset with the situation while they were explaining the problem to you and not taken the time to fully understand what they meant. Or you could have understood completely and known that they weren't going to use glue, but used to your advantage on this forum what the mechanic said. Being vague is a great way to incite misunderstanding and cause a "snowball effect" where a small misunderstanding contributes logarithmically to greater misunderstanding based on assumptions.

Either way, I'm sure that GM will not send you on your merry little way without knowing you are safe.

Good luck with a Kia or a Dodge.

[DAVENEWJERSEY]

Originally Posted by ogre73

By your own words, you say a super glue "type" of fix. This does not imply that they actually use a glue. It could very easily mean that they are going to use a different type of metal alloy or a different weld rod or something of the sort to try to repair the weld joints that already exist. It would almost be the same as "reflow" in soldering electronics. They may try this as opposed to inserting a specially designed and expensively machined bracket that would most likely be overkill.

You may have been upset with the situation while they were explaining the problem to you and not taken the time to fully understand what they meant. Or you could have understood completely and known that they weren't going to use glue, but used to your advantage on this forum what the mechanic said. Being vague is a great way to incite misunderstanding and cause a "snowball effect" where a small misunderstanding contributes logarithmically to greater misunderstanding based on assumptions.

Either way, I'm sure that GM will not send you on your merry little way without knowing you are safe.

Good luck with a Kia or a Dodge.

GM Has "sent me on my way" without repairing their defective welding!
I wish they would take some responsibility with their manufacturing and engieneering problems with regards to public safety. SERVICE BULLETIN #02-08-61-001.

[MCO_Death]

Originally Posted by ogre73

Good luck with a Kia or a Dodge.

I'm glad i'm not alone with my thoughts.

[guenther]

I put this in the other thread about the welds. A few years back, GM replaced my 2000LS intermediate shaft and the cradle that was missing welds with no questions asked.

[DAVENEWJERSEY]

Originally Posted by guenther

I put this in the other thread about the welds. A few years back, GM replaced my 2000LS intermediate shaft and the cradle that was missing welds with no questions asked.

We all must ask why General Motors and Chevrolet would allow their piece of shit Impala to roll of their lines while missing welding.
Too bad for Chevrolet, they will never improve their reputation of low quality workmanship and poorly trained customer service.
Too bad for all the Impala lovers in this forum who are against freedom of speach, you can kiss my ass.

[guenther]

Originally Posted by DAVENEWJERSEY

We all must ask why General Motors and Chevrolet would allow their piece of shit Impala to roll of their lines while missing welding.
Too bad for Chevrolet, they will never improve their reputation of low quality workmanship and poorly trained customer service.
Too bad for all the Impala lovers in this forum who are against freedom of speach, you can kiss my ass.

I stated a fact. You're the one that's all pussy hurt. STFU and buy an import!

[ChrisPa05]

Originally Posted by DAVENEWJERSEY

MY 2001 IMPALA HAS A LOUD BANGING, CRACKING NOISE FROM THE FRONT WHEN TURNING THE STEERING WHEEL AT NO SPEED OR VERY SLOW SPEED.
I was told today by chevy service the problem is defective / missing sub frame welds.
The defective welding causes the frame to flex, metal to metal.
Sometimes they replace the entire frame, but they will try a super glue type fix on the welds to reduce their cost.

They will try to have the customer pay for the defective/ missing welds.
This problem is very profitable for GM as it is frequently mis diagnosed as steering rack replacement, steering shaft replacement, mount replacement, steering shaft lube, etc...etc...
I wonder if the many crashes of police impala vehicles are related to the missing defective welds?

Sorry, couldn't let this one go...
The welds on W body sub frames DO NOT constitute a safety problem, it is a noise concern only. Per GM bulletin #02-08-61-001A, SOME early '01 Impalas had some welds omitted. The bulletin outlines how to install penetrating threadlocker as part of a noise correction kit to the frame to eliminate the noise you have. We have done many of these at the dealer I work at, but all on older Impalas. Newer Imps don't have a problem with the frame, but have other noises with other causes. After reading many posts on this forum, I just want to remind everyone to take your car to THE DEALER. No one has access to the info your dealer does. All the wasted time and money you spend at Joe's garage could be avoided by checking with the dealer. I have worked in this industry for 23 years. Every make and model has problems, not just GM, Ford, Etc. I could give you a grocery list of problems with MAzda, Dodge, Jeep, all of which we sell. Gm has a good warranty and stands behind it's product. Most manufacterers won't offer assistance on a 5 year old car with high mileage. Gm usually requires partial payment on repairs out of warranty. After all, you have gotten use out of the vehicle up until the time you had a problem, right? Why do you think the repair should be free?

Chris

[GM_trannyman]

Originally Posted by ChrisPa05

The welds on W body sub frames DO NOT constitute a safety problem, it is a noise concern only.

Thanks, Chris, you beat me to it. I also am a GM tech. I have been working at various GM dealers since 1984, and at the same Chevy dealer since 1992.

Let's get something straight: The sub frame weld issue is not, and never was, a safety issue. The sub frame consists of a square frame of extruded aluminum. The frame bolts to the underside of the body, and supports the engine, transaxle, steering rack, and the lower suspension components. What is happening with the frame is that when it flexes under normal suspension/steering loads, certain individual components in the assembly are made to scrape against each other very slightly. The movement is slight, but is enough to cause a "pop" noise. The entire assembly, I want to emphasize, IS solidly welded, but it is designed to flex. If it did not flex somewhat, it would break.

What GM has done is to incorporate a few extra welds in the assembly in newer models to add rigidity. This is not to prevent the assembly from failing, but to prevent the noise condition. You (Davenewjersey) might have contempt for large corporations like GM (I bet you voted for Kerry, too - LOSER!), but the folks at GM are not stupid: If they were having problems with the sub frames coming apart, you bet your ass there would be a recall - and fast.

With respect to the "superglue" fix...Dave, I hope you never come to my dealership, because as soon as you start talking bullshit like you are here you'll be out on the street. You make it sound like GM is having us "glue" the frames together. Come on, Dave.

The fix involves a product called Loctite. It is an anaerobic sealer (that means it cures in the absence of air). The product is applied to the joints in the sub frame, between the welds. When it cures, it prevents the slight movement that causes the noise. And it works very well, if done properly.

Finally, the GM W-body (including the Lumina and Impala, and others), is one of the finest, most reliable cars that GM, or anyone else, has ever built. I have owned a '93 Lumina, a '95 Lumina, and last month I took delivery on an '05 Impala SS (my dream car.) I work on Chevrolet cars and trucks every day. If the Impala were such a "piece of shit" do you think I would have bought one?

[MCO_Death]

Originally Posted by GM_trannyman

Thanks, Chris, you beat me to it. I also am a GM tech. I have been working at various GM dealers since 1984, and at the same Chevy dealer since 1992.

Let's get something straight: The sub frame weld issue is not, and never was, a safety issue. The sub frame consists of a square frame of extruded aluminum. The frame bolts to the underside of the body, and supports the engine, transaxle, steering rack, and the lower suspension components. What is happening with the frame is that when it flexes under normal suspension/steering loads, certain individual components in the assembly are made to scrape against each other very slightly. The movement is slight, but is enough to cause a "pop" noise. The entire assembly, I want to emphasize, IS solidly welded, but it is designed to flex. If it did not flex somewhat, it would break.

What GM has done is to incorporate a few extra welds in the assembly in newer models to add rigidity. This is not to prevent the assembly from failing, but to prevent the noise condition. You (Davenewjersey) might have contempt for large corporations like GM (I bet you voted for Kerry, too - LOSER!), but the folks at GM are not stupid: If they were having problems with the sub frames coming apart, you bet your ass there would be a recall - and fast.

With respect to the "superglue" fix...Dave, I hope you never come to my dealership, because as soon as you start talking bullshit like you are here you'll be out on the street. You make it sound like GM is having us "glue" the frames together. Come on, Dave.

The fix involves a product called Loctite. It is an anaerobic sealer (that means it cures in the absence of air). The product is applied to the joints in the sub frame, between the welds. When it cures, it prevents the slight movement that causes the noise. And it works very well, if done properly.

Finally, the GM W-body (including the Lumina and Impala, and others), is one of the finest, most reliable cars that GM, or anyone else, has ever built. I have owned a '93 Lumina, a '95 Lumina, and last month I took delivery on an '05 Impala SS (my dream car.) I work on Chevrolet cars and trucks every day. If the Impala were such a "piece of shit" do you think I would have bought one?

You guys are my hero

On the topic of parts, either of you techs happen to know what a new engine mount runs. Specifically speaking the on on the top side of the engine, left side if your looking at the engine bay. The metal (casting looking part?) cracked.

[minnesotacj]

Hi, I am new to this forum but very interested in receiving a comment from one or both of the GM technicians. I have a 2004 Impala that we purchased new. It has 58,000 miles and is driven by 2 mature adults. The car has been very good to us. However we now have a light metallic clicking noise in the steering. It can be detected when the car is idling and the wheel turned lock to lock. The car is covered by an extended waranty so we took it to our local Chevrolet dealer. Here is the exact description of the problem per the dealership (including the upper case font)... 58152 ROAD TESTED AND VERIFIED THE NOISE, I THEN RETURNED AND RAISED FOUND THAT THE NOISE WAS FROM THE ENGINE CRADLE ASSEMBLY WERE (sic) THE STEERING GEAR ATTACHES TO THE CRADLE THE MOUNTS ARE FLEXING AND MAKING THE NOISE WOULD NEED TO HAVE THE CRADLE ASSEMBLY REPLACED TO ELIMINATE THE NOISE CUSTOMER DECLINED REPAIRS.

The service rep informed me that the warranty (GMPP Majorgaurd) would not cover the repair since the fault is in a body part and not part of the mechanical systems of the car. The repair cost to us was quoted at $1995.00. Now I see from this forum that there may be a GM authorized repair using loctite on some frame components. I do not believe that the engine cradle (wierd name for a sub-frame) is defective. We would like to keep this car for an extended period of time. Can anyone elaborate on the loctite repair? Also, I own a hobby lift for my Corvette and I plan to put the Impala on the lift to investigate for myself. I will focus on the frame to steering gear mounts. I want to resolve this issue. It's been a very good car. Yes the front rotors are warped but I can fix that, no sweat. Also I worked for a Fortune 500 Company for over 22 years, I agree, if this were a true safety concern, these ars would be under a recall.

Cj

[Iflylow]

There was a problem with early intermediate steering shafts making noise, but I think GM put a new design in around 2003. Lubing the shaft fixed it, you might check on that.
Also check the cradle bolts for proper torque. These cars are very sensitive to the cradle bolt torque. I'm pretty sure it's 122 ft.lbs for the 2 rear bolts, and 118 for the two front ones, but verify that with your dealer.
There is also a TSB out for installing shims in the cradle mounts but I don't think it applied to the 2004.