2002 Express LS, 5.7L, no crank, no start problem

[CT-Ken]

Hi, I'm a noob here to the Express forum. But, I am a regular at other forums for the other family vehicles, and I know that there's lots of help out there in forums such as these. In reviewing the Express no start posts on this forum, I can see there's lots of knowledgeable guys here !

I am stumped by a no crank, no start problem with my 02 Express, LS, 1500, 8 pass van, A/T, 350ci, 70K miles. This problem first occurred about a year ago, in the middle of winter. Thinking it was simply a no start problem caused by a tired, 7 year old original Delco battery, I replaced that first, without thinking much about the problem. But, a new battery made no difference. I still had no start, no crank, no solenoid click at all. No problem, I thought. This is my 4th "G" series van, I know them pretty well, and I have plenty of extra parts in my parts cabinet. I bench tested a used original GM replacement starter, found it to be good, and installed it in my van. No change - no start, no crank, no solenoid click. Put the original starter back in. No change. Next went to the fuse panel on the driver's side front kick panel. Checked and reseated all fuses. No change.
Next went to under hood fuse/relay box. Reseated all fuses. No change. Swapped starter and fuel pump relays. Bingo - van started right up! But why - did it heal itself? If the starter relay was bad, now the fuel pump is using that relay, and it's running just fine. What's with that? So, just for good measure, I replaced the original starter relay, and all was just fine, until now.

Now, I have the exact same symptoms, and the failure is hard. Van will not start - no crank, no solenoid click. Inspected and reseated all fuses in driver's kick panel fuse box. No crank. Inspected and reseated all fuses in under hood fuse/relay box. Swapped starter and fuel pump relays - still no crank. Battery is essentially new, and everything works (ie. all accessories), except starter circuit is being cut off by something? I can hear the fuel pump running, and then it eventually goes silent - I assume that is after the approp pressure is reached, and is normal operation.

I have the 3 vol set of GM 02 Express Savana service manuals. I have a basic CAN OBDII scan tool that is showing me no codes. I do not have the scan tool that the service manual calls for in going through the diagnostic procedure for no start.

Oh, and yes, this van has an aftermarket alarm system and remote starter system woven into the original GM remote entry FOB. I have those systems essentially disabled, running in valet mode, as they are a nuisance. The previous owner had these installed. But they are in the mix, and I have not ruled them out yet. So, my plan is to remove the aftermarket control boxes, to see if that makes any difference.

Also, my next step is to run 12V from the battery to the starter, to see if that will crank the van over. I suspect it will.

In the meantime, are there any suggestions that you guys can come up with? Any known soft spots that I might be missing?

All help will be most appreciated, as my van now sits dead in my driveway.

Oh, one more thing - this problem has only occurred in my driveway, after sitting unused for multiple days. It never quits while on the road. There are no driveability issues with it whatsoever, other than this no start issue.

Thanks in advance!!

Ken

[Ralph123]

Could be your park neutral switch or your ignition switch. Have you tried starting it in neutral? Check for voltage at the relay when the key is being turned. If no voltage there, work your way back.
That after market stuff doesn't sound good.
more help>> http://www.aa1car.com/library/car_wont_start.htm

[CT-Ken]

Ralph123 - thanks for the tips. I forgot to mention - yes, from the service manual I see that the neutral switch is part of the starting circuit. I tried to start it in park, neutral, and other gears, but that did not work. Will follow up on your suggestions. Thanks!

[MT-2500]

Remove.
And Drop all of the remote start and after market theft stuff in the trash can and put wiring back with good soldered connections to OEM wiring.

The starter circuit starts at Ign switch and goes threw P/N switch and starter relay and one start fuse to starter solenoid on starter.
Also the starter relay is fused to.

When no start check for 12 volts on purple wire to starter solenoid.

If no voltage there trace back to ign switch for lose of power.
If voltage at starter solenoid check battery cables and ends pos and grounds and starter solenoid and connections at solenoid.

Post back what you find when no start.

[CT-Ken]

Took advantage of the warm weather in CT today and tackled this problem. I used the advice given here and the GM service manual diagram - Starting & Charging Schematics, to troubleshoot and solve the problem. Started at battery and worked toward the end point - the starter.
Tested/found to be good:
1) Battery & connections;
2) Fusible link;
3) At IGN-A 40a fuse & underhood fuse block, before ign switch;
4) After ign switch, Crank Fuse 8, 10a, in I/P fuse panel;
5) At starter relay, in underhood fuse block, after Park/Neutral switch;
So far so good, but this is where the testing showed what the problem really was -
6) At starter/solenoid. Found that HD cable from battery was always hot, as expected. Also found that purple solenoid wire, was hot when ign switch was turned to start. This indicated that the solenoid/starter was inop. Installed the used starter from my parts bin (again), and the starting problem was solved!! This came as a surprise, as the symptoms were the same as the last failure, but that time the starter was not the problem. But, last time I never took the diagnostic testing to this level, and the problem also was not a hard failure.

Also, I did not remove the aftermarket accessories (if one can call them "accessories") as part of this fix, although I was ready to do so. If the testing indicated that the problem was caused by the aftermarket alarm system or remote starter, I would have taken them out today. However, that will be a time consuming job, when I do take on that task.

Thanks for all the assistance!! The tips I received here, especially the advice to check for 12v on the purple solenoid wire from MT-2500, made all the difference.

Ken

[MT-2500]

Thanks
For posting back how it went and the fix.

Cheap wal mart Aftermarket remote start and or bad installation wiring anti theft stuff can give a lot of problems.

Good Luck

[tgaffney]

I have had a similar problem that I have not solved yet. I tried starting my 1999 chevy express 3500 w/5.7 and got one click and nothing. I turned headlights on and tried again. Headlights go out, gauges "jump" way right (and back) and still nothing. I replaced the solenoid on the starter, same results. Replaced the starter (after bench testing), still nothing. When I try to start now, headlights go out, buzzer goes on (door open and key in), gauges jump. I turn key off (and take out) but buzzer continues with dome light faintly lite. Turning headlights to running lights turns off buzzer. Turning headlight switch back off does not turn buzzer back on. I'm lost. I have visually inspected cables to and from battery. Everything looks good. Any suggestions as to what to test/replace next?

[MT-2500]

Originally Posted by tgaffney

I have had a similar problem that I have not solved yet. I tried starting my 1999 chevy express 3500 w/5.7 and got one click and nothing. I turned headlights on and tried again. Headlights go out, gauges "jump" way right (and back) and still nothing. I replaced the solenoid on the starter, same results. Replaced the starter (after bench testing), still nothing. When I try to start now, headlights go out, buzzer goes on (door open and key in), gauges jump. I turn key off (and take out) but buzzer continues with dome light faintly lite. Turning headlights to running lights turns off buzzer. Turning headlight switch back off does not turn buzzer back on. I'm lost. I have visually inspected cables to and from battery. Everything looks good. Any suggestions as to what to test/replace next?

Welcome on your first post.

On a your problem best to start a new tread.
Saves on high jacking another post cost.

In the mean time check your battery for good voltage and good voltage to fuse box and make cables ends are clean and tight.
Also unhook your neg cable and then hook it back up.