Tough Day at the Office in NZ 6 Hour Race

[panozracing]

that is what I thought Jim. So any guess what the gain might be?

I am thinking if I do that and maybe add the cowl induction kit I would pickup the 15-20 RWHP that I am allowed pretty easily.

Wonder if the cowl induction will make the carb need to be adjusted?

[Gatorac]

I'm sure it's a pretty basic physics equations as to how much torque is required to accelerate a given mass. I didn't take physics though.... Ask Jimimac the college boy.

[panozracing]

dont tell anyone I have a mechanical engineering degree....I dont think too much anymore.... :-)

[NZGTRA17]

Originally Posted by panozracing

can you fill me in on the conversion to a triple disc unit? Flywheel, Bellhousing etc....

Brian, I used a pretty ordinary looking SFI approved steel flywheel and had a step machined into this to take the 7 1/4" tripple plate clutch. The clutch is an item I picked up off E Bay as a new surplus stock item for around US$200. I used the standard Ford bellhousing that came with the Panoz and used a Tilton hydraulic release bearing to suit the tripple plate. I imagine this is the same item you use. It has a new snout that replaces the input bearing support and the release bearing screws onto this.



The clutch has some modulation but is somewhat switch like in that it is in or out. You definitely dont want to be trying to drive the car onto trailers etc with this type of clutch as they do not like to be slipped.

Have used them on my last couple of race engines and would not use anything else now. Will hold up to 900ftlbs of torque, last well if not slipped, have low MOI, simple to set up and plates are not excessivley expensive.

Kel.

[panozracing]

i have a mcloed hyd release bearing but I am sure they are similar. I have spent way too much money on the clutch that I have. For some reason the pressure plate housing keeps cracking but yet its rated to 700+ tq.

I guess I will need to mount a winch into the trailer since I currently drive in. that clutch looks nice. Why a steel flywheel when rotating mass is so important? I was looking at the tilton 5" triple disc stuff....Buying used drivetrain parts for a race car is pretty ballsy.

I need to come up with something soon. I would love to reuse the bellhousing and throwout I have......

[NZGTRA17]

Originally Posted by panozracing

i have a mcloed hyd release bearing but I am sure they are similar. I have spent way too much money on the clutch that I have. For some reason the pressure plate housing keeps cracking but yet its rated to 700+ tq.

I guess I will need to mount a winch into the trailer since I currently drive in. that clutch looks nice. Why a steel flywheel when rotating mass is so important? I was looking at the tilton 5" triple disc stuff....Buying used drivetrain parts for a race car is pretty ballsy.

I need to come up with something soon. I would love to reuse the bellhousing and throwout I have......

Brian, I used a steel flywheel for strength and to retain some inertia on the back of the engine. The flywheel had quite a bit of material taken off it reducing its weight from 24lbs down to 15lbs. As it is the engine drops off rpm so quickly when you clutch to change down that you will not find a gear unless you rev match as you down change. This can be a little disconcerting if you are not used to it.

I am not a big fan of mounting these clutches direct to the crank with a button clutch and flexplate as I have had one of these let go before (new) Brian.

There is little reason to change bellhousings unless yours is fatigued or damaged. With any luck you will be able to reuse you throwout bearing again. You may just need to change the bearing to suit the differing finger size of the tripple plate diapragm.

I would have a really good measure up to ensure that your bellhousing is correctly aligned if you are having cracking issues. Would have thought this would occur in the clutch plate (not pressure plate) if alignment but would pay to check anyway to prevent recurrence.

Oh, one thing to look out for is to make sure you get the stack dimensions correct when you machine the flywheel. If you take any material off the face of the flywheel remember that this moves the clutch plates and release bearing further forward. You can run out of engagement spline for the plates and release travel if you cock this up!!

Kel.

[panozracing]

I am not having cracking issues on the bellhousing. The metal cage that holds the pressure plate is cracking around the pins on the flywheel. The flywheel has 3 pins and 5 bolts holding it in place.

The only measurement to make sure its installed correctly would be to use a feeler gauge and make sure the pressure plate is seated to the flywheel. I have done that and doesnt seem to help. For some reason the pressure plate is moving around on the pins/bolts.

[NZGTRA17]

Originally Posted by panozracing

I am not having cracking issues on the bellhousing. The metal cage that holds the pressure plate is cracking around the pins on the flywheel. The flywheel has 3 pins and 5 bolts holding it in place.

The only measurement to make sure its installed correctly would be to use a feeler gauge and make sure the pressure plate is seated to the flywheel. I have done that and doesnt seem to help. For some reason the pressure plate is moving around on the pins/bolts.

Brian, what I meant was I would check the bellhousing alignment given the cracking issues you are having with the clutch pressure plate. Any bellhousing misalignment will mean the trans input shaft will be preloading the clutch plate and the pressure plate.

This normally ends up with the clutch center getting damaged not the pressure plate, but worth checking (just use a DTI). I have seen many bellhousings require machining to attain correct alignenment.

Kel.

[NZGTRA17]

Originally Posted by panozracing

.....

Brian, I am looking at going solid roller cam with my next shortblock so I can extend safe rpm range out to around 6500 - 6600. The engine will still be endurance focussed though, not a sprint engine so I am looking carefully at component lives.

I have run a solid roller before in a high rpm engine with 240lb on seat / 600lb over the nose valve springs. Cam/lifter/spring life was around say 20 engine hours give or take (lifter bodies would be getting quite scuffed by 15 hours).

What sort of lift are you running at the valve? What spring seat pressure are you running? At what interval (engine hours) are you changing valve springs and roller lifters?

Thnx, Kel.

[PanozDuke]

See See it's not just me me. There is something going on with this site site.

Mike
Mike

[NZGTRA17]

Originally Posted by PanozDuke

See See it's not just me me. There is something going on with this site site.

Mike
Mike

Cant tell a lie Mike...............got impatient when it was so slow to post, so an own goal. Keeping good company though!!

I just found they have a cool feature for deleting complete messages........so now its "Mike whats up"?

[panozracing]

Originally Posted by NZGTRA17

Brian, I am looking at going solid roller cam with my next shortblock so I can extend safe rpm range out to around 6500 - 6600. The engine will still be endurance focussed though, not a sprint engine so I am looking carefully at component lives.

I have run a solid roller before in a high rpm engine with 240lb on seat / 600lb over the nose valve springs. Cam/lifter/spring life was around say 20 engine hours give or take (lifter bodies would be getting quite scuffed by 15 hours).

What sort of lift are you running at the valve? What spring seat pressure are you running? At what interval (engine hours) are you changing valve springs and roller lifters?

Thnx, Kel.

I currently run a 6700 msd chip. The engine has about 35hrs. on it and we have done nothing yet besides oil changes and setting the valve clearance. I dont know the questions you asked and sent them to my engine builder to answer. I will post his response if he responds. We did discuss that I could go well into 100hrs. without changing anything (I hope).

Right now I need to pull the tranny since I dont like the way it was shifting and see how much life is on the clutch and also devise a new plan for a different clutch. I would still like to be able to drive into the trailer....I would need to mount a winch in the toter to pull the car in otherwise.

[NZGTRA17]

Originally Posted by panozracing

I currently run a 6700 msd chip. The engine has about 35hrs. on it and we have done nothing yet besides oil changes and setting the valve clearance. I dont know the questions you asked and sent them to my engine builder to answer. I will post his response if he responds. We did discuss that I could go well into 100hrs. without changing anything (I hope).

Right now I need to pull the tranny since I dont like the way it was shifting and see how much life is on the clutch and also devise a new plan for a different clutch. I would still like to be able to drive into the trailer....I would need to mount a winch in the toter to pull the car in otherwise.

Thanks Brian. Will be interested to hear what your builder says. Supplier over here for Comp Cams roller lifters is talking 15 - 20 hrs life for the lifters in endurance application. This would make for expensive racing. I am not looking at going wild either..........!!

Kel.

[Squerly]

Originally Posted by panozracing

I would need to mount a winch in the toter to pull the car in otherwise...

I did the winch thing several years ago and now I wouldn't have it any other way! These cars are so wide that there is bairly an inch on each side of the trailer wheel wheels, and the winch makes it very easy to load/unload. (expecially if something breaks)

[panozracing]

Total Engine Concepts (Mike K) answered me today with the following:

Brian, if he only wants to turn 6600, 210 on the seat and 550 open will work with a good shaft rocker arm and intake valves that weigh in the 110 gram range. 40 - 50 hrs shouldn't be a problem with a decent quality lifter that has forced oiling to the needle bearigs.