04 Suburban - Front diff. whining / binding

[fraser jim]

Took my 04 66k Suburban 1500 4WD into dealer to replace transfer case encoder motor sensor. They noticed right front diff. axle seal leaking. They replaced seal.

First time on snow, I put it in 4High and front diff. sounded like it was in 4LO. deep whining and when you turned steering wheel, while driving slowly, it would start to bind up and shutter.

Tried to back out of a parking space and had steering wheel cranked all the way over. Suburban wouldn't move until wheel was straightened.

They indicated that they filled diff. up .

Any ideas of how they screwed it up?

Are there shims / spacers that they might not have replaced?

Thanks,

FJ

[j cAT]

Originally Posted by fraser jim

Took my 04 66k Suburban 1500 4WD into dealer to replace transfer case encoder motor sensor. They noticed right front diff. axle seal leaking. They replaced seal.

First time on snow, I put it in 4High and front diff. sounded like it was in 4LO. deep whining and when you turned steering wheel, while driving slowly, it would start to bind up and shutter.

Tried to back out of a parking space and had steering wheel cranked all the way over. Suburban wouldn't move until wheel was straightened.

They indicated that they filled diff. up .

Any ideas of how they screwed it up?

Are there shims / spacers that they might not have replaced?

Thanks,

FJ

there is no way to tell ..what happened ...most likely they screwed something up...

the front axle seals do leak slightly...80-90 wt gear oil will make a very very very small leak look much bigger than it is....

so what have you done ? is there oil in the front diff.? did you check the vent for being restricted causing the leak ? how often do you check and or replace the front diff and other drive train fluids..?

are you the original owner ? do you do any repairs on your vehicles?

[laxman21]

Did they crank the front pinion bolt down too tight?

[fraser jim]

I am the original owner.

Changed front and rear diff. fluids at 36k.

Leak on right front axle was slinging small amount of fluid onto frame behind axle.

Kick myself now for letting them touch it.

Pulled plug on front diff. Came out with lubicant that seemed to be the consistency and color of olive oil. Looked clearer than most 10W30 motor oil. Smelled like 80W-90 gear oil, but seemed very light weight. Though that it might have been a synthetic.

Shop order says that they put in 80W-90 CAM2.

If they put in wrong lub. I am presuming that they need to open diff. to clean out any metal shavings, etc. Also, is there a magnetic drain plug?

What else should they look for.

Thanks,

FJ

[j cAT]

Originally Posted by fraser jim

I am the original owner.

Changed front and rear diff. fluids at 36k.

Leak on right front axle was slinging small amount of fluid onto frame behind axle.

Kick myself now for letting them touch it.

Pulled plug on front diff. Came out with lubicant that seemed to be the consistency and color of olive oil. Looked clearer than most 10W30 motor oil. Smelled like 80W-90 gear oil, but seemed very light weight. Though that it might have been a synthetic.

Shop order says that they put in 80W-90 CAM2.

If they put in wrong lub. I am presuming that they need to open diff. to clean out any metal shavings, etc. Also, is there a magnetic drain plug?

What else should they look for.

Thanks,

FJ

the fluid desciption sounds good.the drain plug does have a magnet. it is possible they did not properly seat the driveshaft..or the locking clip..

the front dif should be 80-90wt GL-5..filled to about 1/2inch below the fill hole..also make sure the vent hose and end piece is clear and clean ...if the venting hose is kinked restricted you can have leak problems...

the front locking actuator motor locks the front axles together only..the transfercase encoder motor engages the front locked axle to the rear axles ...so 4WD is solely engaged by the transfercase encoder motor..

when in AUTO 4WD the front axles are locked, then if a slip is detected the transfercase encoder will connect the rear to front...

do you have auto 4WD ?

[fraser jim]

Thanks j cAT,

Looks like I have Auto 4WD. The selector buttons, from top to bottom are:

-Auto 4WD
-2HI
-4HI
-4LO


When you say fluid description sounds good, did you mean that 80W-90 feels light weight and should be almost clear when new, or should it just be as thick and dark brown before they started to use synthetics in the "good old days"?

Also, at 36k, my wife took it in to the original dealer and they sold her a 4x4 service. They said that they put in SYN 75W-90 in the front diff.

Owners manual says use the 80W-90 on 4WD and Synthetic 75W-90 on All Wheel Drive Suburbans. Could this have made a difference, if we were running the 75W-90 for 30k miles?

Could they have screwed anything up on the encoder motor sensor, when they replaced that??

Regards,

FJ

[j cAT]

Originally Posted by fraser jim

Thanks j cAT,

Looks like I have Auto 4WD. The selector buttons, from top to bottom are:

-Auto 4WD
-2HI
-4HI
-4LO


When you say fluid description sounds good, did you mean that 80W-90 feels light weight and should be almost clear when new, or should it just be as thick and dark brown before they started to use synthetics in the "good old days"?

Also, at 36k, my wife took it in to the original dealer and they sold her a 4x4 service. They said that they put in SYN 75W-90 in the front diff.

Owners manual says use the 80W-90 on 4WD and Synthetic 75W-90 on All Wheel Drive Suburbans. Could this have made a difference, if we were running the 75W-90 for 30k miles?

Could they have screwed anything up on the encoder motor sensor, when they replaced that??

Regards,

FJ

I DOUBT using the synthetic did anything...I believe that the synthetic fluid may be used instead of the 80-90wt...but in your diff it is not required..

place the vehicle into auto 4wd and see if the issues remain...if they do then it would be the front diff that is the problem..the transfercase will be on only when in 4wd not auto 4wd..

In auto 4wd with no slipage, it will not engage the transfercase encoder motor , and only the front axles are locked to each other..

you do have the same sized/wear on all tires as this can cause issues with the drivetrain having tires of a different wear or manufacturer that would cause the rotation speed of tires to be different..

[Borguy]

Originally Posted by fraser jim

Tried to back out of a parking space and had steering wheel cranked all the way over. Suburban wouldn't move until wheel was straightened.

Originally Posted by j cAT

...In auto 4wd with no slipage, it will not engage the transfercase encoder motor , and only the front axles are locked to each other...

In Auto 4WD it engages when steering wheel is cranked all the way.
It "senses" too much a difference in rotation between front and rear axles/driveshafts and "thinks" there is a slippage and engages the clutch in the t-case.
Mine does anyway ('99)...

But straight ahead it shouldn't whine

[j cAT]

Originally Posted by Borguy

In Auto 4WD it engages when steering wheel is cranked all the way.
It "senses" too much a difference in rotation between front and rear axles/driveshafts and "thinks" there is a slippage and engages the clutch in the t-case.
Mine does anyway ('99)...

But straight ahead it shouldn't whine

this 4WD has no clutches..if you have this occur when making turns your sensors may need cleaning/repairs..

if you have the vehicle in any 4wd position the locked axles when turning the wheel hard down to park vehicle on dry pavement will cause alot of steering wheel resistance...

[fraser jim]

Thanks guys,

After the explainations and, remembering what was going on, things make sense.

2HI - OK

Auto 4WD - Noisey and would "bump" when the front drive shaft engaged on slippery surfaces.

4WD- Noisey, noiser when going around shallow curves (all on snow packed dirt road), steering resistance when making 90 degree turn. Also, when I was backing in parking lot and turned the steering wheel all the way over, the vehicle stoped completely (I presumed it locked up the front axle).

Took it back to the dealer and waiting to hear their expert opinion.

Fasten your seatbelts.

FJ

[j cAT]

Originally Posted by fraser jim

Thanks guys,

After the explainations and, remembering what was going on, things make sense.

2HI - OK

Auto 4WD - Noisey and would "bump" when the front drive shaft engaged on slippery surfaces.

4WD- Noisey, noiser when going around shallow curves (all on snow packed dirt road), steering resistance when making 90 degree turn. Also, when I was backing in parking lot and turned the steering wheel all the way over, the vehicle stoped completely (I presumed it locked up the front axle).

Took it back to the dealer and waiting to hear their expert opinion.

Fasten your seatbelts.

FJ

since it is noisey when its in auto 4WD this means the front diff is the cause..its either worn parts or incorrectly assembled..

hold on to your wallet..

[fraser jim]

Well, I talked to the ace mechanic at the dealer. He said that it was in the transfer case.

What a coincidence.

He pulled the transfer case and said that the clutches were burnt.

His logic.

Since I didn't hear noise when in 2HI, it ruled out front diff. because it is spinning.

In 4Hi, the motor locks the two front axles and front diff. and spins the front drive shaft. So if in front diff. only, you wouldn't hear noise when in 4WD.

Makes sense, but at this stage I am at the mercy of the dealer. Hope that their kids have a merrier Christmas.

Disappointed in GM quality. My 1987 Suburban went 13 years and 173k before the tranny when.

Maybe time for a Tundra?

FJ

[j cAT]

Originally Posted by fraser jim

Well, I talked to the ace mechanic at the dealer. He said that it was in the transfer case.

What a coincidence.

He pulled the transfer case and said that the clutches were burnt.

His logic.

Since I didn't hear noise when in 2HI, it ruled out front diff. because it is spinning.

In 4Hi, the motor locks the two front axles and front diff. and spins the front drive shaft. So if in front diff. only, you wouldn't hear noise when in 4WD.

Makes sense, but at this stage I am at the mercy of the dealer. Hope that their kids have a merrier Christmas.

Disappointed in GM quality. My 1987 Suburban went 13 years and 173k before the tranny when.

Maybe time for a Tundra?

FJ

the transfercase clutch packs fail because of the use of dexronIII or the use of some other transmissionfluid....the transfercase spec changed to TRAC II TRANSFERCASE FLUID ,,BECAUSE GM HAD A CLUTCH PACK FAILURE RATE. if the 4x4 service was done 36,ooomi ago this should not of occured..but since you do admit you had this in AUTO 4X4 it is then expected to prematurely fail..

check out the new tundra/toyota 4X4 vehicles..then compare with GM..GM uses shit plastic...very weak..and tooo much of it...toyota uses more steel...

all vehicles have defects of some sort...what maters is how they make things right..Toyota has impressed me with the corrections of the defects in their vehicles...

[fraser jim]

Thanks j cAT

I checked the transfer case fluid, when I first had a problem with the enocder motor sensor, and it was a "turquoise blue". I was told by a mechanic friend, that this was the right stuff for the 2004s.

Looked at Consumer Reports and they say "Worst than average" problems for the 2004 drivetrain.

We drive over Berthoud Pass just about every weekend. Most of the time it is dry. So I figure 1,000 miles a year in either auto 4wd of 4hi, depending on how slippery the roads are. I am very careful not to run it in either on dry roads. Some towing, but not much weight.

Still waiting for the dealer to finish.

FJ

[j cAT]

Originally Posted by fraser jim

Thanks j cAT

I checked the transfer case fluid, when I first had a problem with the enocder motor sensor, and it was a "turquoise blue". I was told by a mechanic friend, that this was the right stuff for the 2004s.

Looked at Consumer Reports and they say "Worst than average" problems for the 2004 drivetrain.

We drive over Berthoud Pass just about every weekend. Most of the time it is dry. So I figure 1,000 miles a year in either auto 4wd of 4hi, depending on how slippery the roads are. I am very careful not to run it in either on dry roads. Some towing, but not much weight.

Still waiting for the dealer to finish.

FJ

this report is true...this is because GM failed to inform owners that these 4X4 vehicles need alot of fluid changes and also a breakin period to ensure long trouble free life..then the DEXRON III tranny fluid which destroys this transmission...I was lucky to find this out back in 1998..thats why I only use mobil synthetic tranny fluid...the new DEXRON VI is also good to use ....this was the GM fix for the reports of excessive failures you correctly refer to...

let me know how you made out good luck..