Materialist Atheists perspective of life, and death.

[-Davo]

In the words of Richard Dawkins, life results in the non-random survival, of random varying replicators.

We are a product of evolution, life is a product of chemical reactions.

The purpose of life is to survive, if we do not survive, there is no purpose to our life. When I said our life, I mean mankind as a species.

We are eating this Earth, we are destroying that which has housed life for the last 2 billion years. We are just a spec of dirt in the sand in terms of how long we have been here.

We adopt morals, and laws to govern our survival. We speculate on life, and philosophy on why we are here.

Does the Atheist have any morals? Of course we do. We believe in the value of human life, we accept man kinds inevitability to death and decay and hence life is precious. We have rejected the concept of religion, because we do not believe people should lose their lives over what someone else believes. The Christian Crusades, or Islams treatment of women.

The morals of religion are so skewed in the history books, that if we did not move away from them, we would forever be in the middle ages, of death and superstition. We have evolved our morals, based on a fundamental purpose; to bring peace to western civilization. Religion does not bring peace, it brings fear. It bring suppression of knowledge. Why do you think people actually want to teach kids the earth is 6,000 years old? Because their religion told them its true.

For over 1000 years, the Vatican's grip on the western world, pushed technological advancements to a halt, and brought a thousand years of darkness to mankind, it was not until Galileo looked up the stars, and thought logically, that thanks to him, we have achieved the heights, and glory that life has to offer.



But is there life after death? For our species, who knows? When will nature decide to select us for extinction? What will we evolve into?

When we die, the material link between brain activity and the human consciousness fades, one can not survive without the other, we literally fall asleep...forever. It kinda sucks, being alive is fun, I enjoying being aware of my surroundings.

But I cannot stand the idea it.

I do not believe in the absurdity of an afterlife, I live in a bubble called reality. There is no heaven, there is no reason to believe in an afterlife, no matter what your religious convictions lay in front of you.

The meaning of life to me is simple. There is no meaning. People attribute meaning, because mankind refuses to accept the inevitable. Is there life outside our solar system? Probably so, but I can't see why anyone cares, we can't manage our own species, yet we seem to be so dedicated in finding another one. One giant paradox.

When we are born, we are both Atheists. We live the first few years of our life in bliss, from the brainwashing fear factor that is religion, until we can comprehend the language in what we are brought up into, until we can consciously accept who and what we are, then we are told a magical man exists, living in the clouds, watching over everyone, every minute of the day, in everything you do. And if you do not worship him every day, he till send you to a place of fire, and torture, and burning and disease (to quote George Carlin, RIP), but he loves you.

Religion's false dichotomy has usurped the reason of life, it has usurped the purpose of life. There is no purpose to life if you are brain fed the myth of an afterlife from the age in which your parents agreed you are old enough to understand the context.

There is purpose to the atheist; survival of the fit (not the fittest), there is meaning to the materialist; we are the product of chance, not divine intervention. Not one of many creation myths.

For thousands and thousands of years, humans have roamed our Earth. Each with a language, a loved one, thoughts and ideas, dreams and hopes. They are now dead, and in two thousand years everything you have left will be gone and forgotten, homosapiens will push on, we will endeavor. 10 generations down your genetic line, your bloodline will have their own, and your memory, my memory will just be a shadow on a picture, in the attic of a random house, gathering dust (that is of course, if your pictures are still around).

After death, we sleep forever. No brain activity, no consciousness. We decay, and rot. Some of us will be thrown 6 feet under, some of us will be burnt to ashes. Ashes to ashes, dust to dust.

Life is good, be something.

Although this thread has a dark, depressing, pessimistic attitude, I am optimistic about life, to each his own.

Peace.

[Nicole8188]

I love George Carlin.

At this point in time I believe the same things you do, but sometimes I think anything is possible and who are we to go about saying for sure what's going to happen when we die? I sometimes find myself thinking it would be nice if the spider in the corner were in fact my grandmother.

That was really well written, by the way.

[MagicRat]

I certainly agree witht eh sentiment there.

But I would add that an estimated 98% of all species that have ever evolved on Earth in the last 3.5 billion years are now extinct.

Earth has an estimated 500 million years left until it is rendered uninhabitable due to changes in the Sun's fusion process. I am quite certain humans will not survive this time as a species. We will become extinct; whether it's an environmental calamity or we blow ourselves up. We will join the other 98% as failed evolutionary branches.

I would also add that evolutionary theorists believe (and are studying) the concept that being 'moral' and altruistic is not a product of religion etc. but is in all (or most) of us as a product of our evolution,

A sense of morality helps the human individual and the human group successfully produce future generations and is a useful evolutuionary tool, like the ability to use language and speech.
It is the height of ignorance and arrogance for religious people to claim athiests are immoral, or that morality is a product of (or fear from) a god.

[thrasher]

Although this thread has a dark, depressing, pessimistic attitude, I am optimistic about life, to each his own.

I am as atheistic as they come, and I am also optimistic about life. Just because life is meaningless does not mean that one necessarily has to be pessimistic or depressed. Appreciating the inherent beauty in the circle of life, in the amazing way that life has evolved to its current state, is reason enough for me to enjoy and find meaning in preserving this cycle.

It is the height of ignorance and arrogance for religious people to claim athiests are immoral, or that morality is a product of (or fear from) a god.

I couldn't agree more with this statement. It is the epitomy of irony that "moral" religious folk are the same ones driving our planet towards extinction, all while keeping their head in the clouds and their noses turned up.

[VR43000GT]

To be antheist is one's own choice. I am not. However, I don't see atheist as people who have no regards for human life and no feeling of sympathy for others. Just my .02

[GForce957]

+1

Not all people who believe in religion think that the earth is 6,000 years old. Just as morals have evolved, so has religion.

[MagicRat]

Originally Posted by GForce957

+1

Not all people who believe in religion think that the earth is 6,000 years old. Just as morals have evolved, so has religion.

This is commendable, and imo is applicable to most reasonable religious people.

However, it does bring up another point about religious beliefs.

Morals are variable, subject to interpretation and vary depending on the context.

However, religious dogma is often absolute, and thus subject to contradictions, which are fueled by differing views held by most religious people.

People tend to accept some religious tenants and principles , but reject others. The Shiites hate the Sunnis, the Catholics believe the Protestants are wrong, and everyone else thinks the Mormons are whacked......

For example, just as you accept God, but reject the notion the Earth is 6000 years old, there are (many) others who would say you are a heretic, unbeliever etc and destined for Hell.

So, how can all the differing religious views be correct, at the same time?
(By 'correct' I mean give an accurate representation of God, His wishes and expectations and the role of believers in the universe.....)

Atheism is imho such a refreshing relief from such contradiction.

[VR43000GT]

^I guess the way I see it is, I believe in God, however, I believe much of what was written in the Bible is to be taken as a lesson or moral. I forget which part but I know part of the Bible was written by a man who had spent much time in jail and may have been somewhat unstable. Though, that is a small portion of it. The thing is, since the Bible was written by people, it is the people that I distrust or have trouble believing. I do believe fully in God, and that if you live right you do have an afterlife in heaven. I just don't believe everything that people have said about religion. I am sure you see my beliefs quite askew but that is what I believe in and the reason I believe it is because of faith.

[GForce957]

Originally Posted by MagicRat

So, how can all the differing religious views be correct, at the same time?
(By 'correct' I mean give an accurate representation of God, His wishes and expectations and the role of believers in the universe.....)

Atheism is imho such a refreshing relief from such contradiction.

I like this quote from Dogma, Chris Rock's character said it...

"I think it's better to have ideas. You can change an idea. Changing a belief is trickier. Life should malleable and progressive; working from idea to idea permits that. Beliefs anchor you to certain points and limit growth; new ideas can't generate. Life becomes stagnant. "

[-Davo]

Originally Posted by SL3000gt

^I guess the way I see it is, I believe in God, however, I believe much of what was written in the Bible is to be taken as a lesson or moral.

I forget which part but I know part of the Bible was written by a man who had spent much time in jail and may have been somewhat unstable. Though, that is a small portion of it.

The thing is, since the Bible was written by people, it is the people that I distrust or have trouble believing. I do believe fully in God, and that if you live right you do have an afterlife in heaven. I just don't believe everything that people have said about religion. I am sure you see my beliefs quite askew but that is what I believe in and the reason I believe it is because of faith.

The main point of this thread, was really a response to Muscletang on my Intelligent Design's Webpage thread who compared Atheism to murdering tree's.
Although I responded in that thread, I felt it does not do the Atheist's any justice, and it needed to be clear.

I could write for hours on the repulsive, immoral nature of the bible, and expose the lies and dishonesty and hypocrisy within the Catholic Church, but their actions only speech for them selves, louder than words.

Peace

[ExoticSpotting]

Originally Posted by MagicRat

It is the height of ignorance and arrogance for religious people to claim athiests are immoral, or that morality is a product of (or fear from) a god.

Christians do not belive that athiests are immoral just because you don't believe in god, we're fine with that, believe what you want to it's America.

The big reason we believe athiests are immoral is because they constantly attack what we believe is moral. If you support abortion, gay marriage, legalized prostitution etc. we believe that you are immoral.

That you don't believe in god is besides the point, if you have those beliefs and you're a muslim, a jew, or a mormon we will come to the same conclusion abou your morality

[MagicRat]

Originally Posted by ExoticSpotting

Christians do not belive that athiests are immoral just because you don't believe in god, we're fine with that, believe what you want to it's America.

The big reason we believe athiests are immoral is because they constantly attack what we believe is moral. If you support abortion, gay marriage, legalized prostitution etc. we believe that you are immoral.

Thank you for your input.

I do not think any atheist would force you to have an abortion, get a gay marriage or pick up a hooker, and thus I do not see how your kind are being "attacked. " As you say, America is about personal freedoms. Let them live their lives they way they want and they will leave you alone.

In my experience, most religious people haul out the argument that supporting such actions is 'against the word of God' (or variations of God's will, law, biblical teachings etc....) We have seen plenty of that in the argument against Proposition 8 in CA recently.

Religion has been used to support many many horrendously immoral principles, acts and deeds. As I recall, religious teachings from the Bible and/or respected religious officials have supported slavery, eugenics, racism, many wars, religious-based killings, ethnic cleansing; some of it quite recently.
Thus imho it is outrageous hypocracy for religious arguments to judge any moral position of any kind.

Yes, I know that most religious individuals do not hold such extreme views. However, this is evidence that religious beliefs are quite fractured and inconsistent from one individual to the next and therefore are a very hazardous gauge for judging morality. They are no substitute for the rule of secular law.

[akboss]

Originally Posted by MagicRat

Thank you for your input.
...
Religion has been used to support many many horrendously immoral principles, acts and deeds. As I recall, religious teachings from the Bible and/or respected religious officials have supported slavery, eugenics, racism, many wars, religious-based killings, ethnic cleansing; some of it quite recently.
Thus imho it is outrageous hypocracy for religious arguments to judge any moral position of any kind.

Atheism has also been used to 'support many many horrendously immoral principles, acts and deeds' so what's your point? We're all human and we all sin, this is nature. God sent his son into the Earth to die so that we would have a choice. A Christian with a grasp of what he believes should never proclaim to be perfect in any way, they are just working towards making themselves better, and the Bible provides a template for working towards being better. If Christians were perfect, we wouldn't need God, but that's far from the case.

When Jesus was asked his greatest commandment he said "Love thy God with all of your heard, mind and strength. The second? "Love thy neighbour". People will use whatever they see fit to justify their own means and actions, but it's not the fault of a hypocritical or false religion, it is the fault of the people that read and interpret it. That's the biggest blind spot people have in pointing at religion as such a hateful thing, it isn't. In principle it's the opposite, a message of hope and meaning and eternity, but the second a priest steals from the church the entire faith is cast down on the front page of a newspaper. Had it been a 'regular guy' it would have made the last page next to the personals. Let the person be judged, not the faith.

[MagicRat]

Originally Posted by akboss

Atheism has also been used to 'support many many horrendously immoral principles, acts and deeds' so what's your point? We're all human and we all sin, this is nature. God sent his son into the Earth to die so that we would have a choice. A Christian with a grasp of what he believes should never proclaim to be perfect in any way, they are just working towards making themselves better, and the Bible provides a template for working towards being better. If Christians were perfect, we wouldn't need God, but that's far from the case.

When Jesus was asked his greatest commandment he said "Love thy God with all of your heard, mind and strength. The second? "Love thy neighbour". People will use whatever they see fit to justify their own means and actions, but it's not the fault of a hypocritical or false religion, it is the fault of the people that read and interpret it. That's the biggest blind spot people have in pointing at religion as such a hateful thing, it isn't. In principle it's the opposite, a message of hope and meaning and eternity, but the second a priest steals from the church the entire faith is cast down on the front page of a newspaper. Had it been a 'regular guy' it would have made the last page next to the personals. Let the person be judged, not the faith.

Hers is some news. People can improve themselves without god. Atheists do it all the time. .... and do it without the fairy -tale stick (hell) or carrot (heaven) approach.

As I have said elsewhere in this forum, I believe most christians are decent people.... but they are decent because of their innate humanity, and not because some magical man has made them this way. Humans can (and do) organize themselves to be better without having to be deluded by condescending, obviously false mythology to do so.

Why is this important?
Well, if a religious person does the 'right' thing because of a desire for heaven and a fear of hell; yet an atheist does the 'right' thing just because it is the proper and decent thing to do, then who is more moral?
And who is self - centered and greedy?

Imho humanity freeing itself from the yoke of religion is analogous to an individual finally growing up and taking control of their own life.