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Old 09-04-2009, 05:42 PM   #1
bhw33191
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What i found when i took off the valve covers..

For one thing, i found a little bit of dark dark black sludge, not a whole lot, i think it might be normal to have a little bit of this, but along with this i found what appeared to be broken up pieces black (rubber seals)? Another surprise i found was a few "strands" of metal,which appeared to have been shaved off something. The biggest piece i found was sort of half stuck under a valve spring. I thought it was possibly from the valve spring itself because the lip around the bottom of the valve spring seat appeared to be in a way chewed up a bit; it was like this for the rest of the valve springs. As i mention in the video, i'm not sure if this is just an imperfection in the head thats normal, or what. I'm no real mechanic so its hard to tell.

I did however find out exactly where the smoke is coming from. In between the 4 sets of intake and exhaust rockers theres a hole where i can see the rods that touch the cam lobes. The smoke is coming from these holes.

Heres the video so you guys will have a better idea of what i saw.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5cghurcPos

Thanks in advance.
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-- 65,000 original miles --
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Old 09-04-2009, 08:11 PM   #2
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Re: What i found when i took off the valve covers..

I would ask a couple of machine shops for a price on a used head with a valve job. Add a valve job for the other head, a new cam shaft and new lifters,and timing chain two piece set, if the bottom half is in good condition. They maybe able to repair yours.
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Old 09-04-2009, 08:40 PM   #3
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Re: What i found when i took off the valve covers..

I reviewed your video and the heads look very good for a vehicle this old...metal pieces you found are common with the manufacturing of engines...you wouldn't believe the amount of sand castings that drained out of my block the first time I pulled the coolant plugs on each side of the engine..

I'm sure that the seals are hardened on the valves,,which are the small pieces your finding,,, but all in all the amount of sludge in your engine is very very small,,,considering it is a smoker...all the more I believe the rings are suspect as the problem...and/or cylinder wall scoring.


your engine also idles smooth and does not shake,,with this it would indicate the wear is equal in all cylinders..

If you want to give it a try have the heads sent to a machine shop,,,have the head rebuilt,,with the valve guides also..

when the head comes off you will be able to inspect the cylinder walls for wear..if the cylinder walls are worn just put it all back together until you can do the whole motor...

good video
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Old 09-04-2009, 11:27 PM   #4
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Re: What i found when i took off the valve covers..

Quote:
Originally Posted by j cAT View Post
I reviewed your video and the heads look very good for a vehicle this old...metal pieces you found are common with the manufacturing of engines...you wouldn't believe the amount of sand castings that drained out of my block the first time I pulled the coolant plugs on each side of the engine..

I'm sure that the seals are hardened on the valves,,which are the small pieces your finding,,, but all in all the amount of sludge in your engine is very very small,,,considering it is a smoker...all the more I believe the rings are suspect as the problem...and/or cylinder wall scoring.


your engine also idles smooth and does not shake,,with this it would indicate the wear is equal in all cylinders..

If you want to give it a try have the heads sent to a machine shop,,,have the head rebuilt,,with the valve guides also..

when the head comes off you will be able to inspect the cylinder walls for wear..if the cylinder walls are worn just put it all back together until you can do the whole motor...

good video
Thank you. One thing i'd like to say, it does idle "somewhat" smooth. I was thinking of making another video to show this. The only way to describe it is that it "jumps" every few seconds when it idles and a few smaller jumps in between. So i guess the cylinders have worn "for the most part" equal. Thank god it still runs good, otherwise this thing would be a massive land anchor until i got the money for a rebuild and whatnot.

I might attempt taking off the head myself this sunday to take a look at how much this'll hurt my wallet in the future. I'll likely have a video on this too.
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Old 09-05-2009, 12:18 AM   #5
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Re: What i found when i took off the valve covers..

How many miles total are on this engine?

I am not thinking rods here ... that 'smoke' looked suspiciously like steam, as in you might have a blown head gasket.
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Old 09-05-2009, 08:46 AM   #6
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Re: What i found when i took off the valve covers..

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Originally Posted by silicon212 View Post
How many miles total are on this engine?

I am not thinking rods here ... that 'smoke' looked suspiciously like steam, as in you might have a blown head gasket.
Literally just ticked over to 54,000 today. Don't they make a tester with a float and when you put it in the coolant it'll tell you if theres stuff other than coolant in there?
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Old 09-05-2009, 12:09 PM   #7
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Re: What i found when i took off the valve covers..

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhw33191 View Post
Literally just ticked over to 54,000 today. Don't they make a tester with a float and when you put it in the coolant it'll tell you if theres stuff other than coolant in there?
You don't need one. Just look at the coolant - if it's cloudy, or there is any oil, or if there is any exhaust smell, then a head gasket is suspect. Run the engine with the cap off for a while, just let it idle for about 2-3 minutes. If, near the end of the run, you see bubbles in the coolant, this is another symptom.

The tool you are referring to is a specific gravity checker and those are used to determine proper blend of coolant (amount of antifreeze vs. water).
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Old 09-06-2009, 12:33 AM   #8
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Re: What i found when i took off the valve covers..

Quote:
Originally Posted by silicon212 View Post
You don't need one. Just look at the coolant - if it's cloudy, or there is any oil, or if there is any exhaust smell, then a head gasket is suspect. Run the engine with the cap off for a while, just let it idle for about 2-3 minutes. If, near the end of the run, you see bubbles in the coolant, this is another symptom.

The tool you are referring to is a specific gravity checker and those are used to determine proper blend of coolant (amount of antifreeze vs. water).
I looked for bubbles but i didn't let the engine run long enough (because i didn't know what i was suppose to do at the time really), but i'll try again tomorrow. BUT i did do a compression test and got surprising results!!!

Facing the front of the car, the right side of the engine had considerably less compression than the hole left side (Bad head gasket on this side???). And this is the side that i took the valve cover off in my video. I left the paper i wrote the results on in my car and its too late to go out now so i'll post the exact results in the morning. But anyway, on my gauge under the PSI it has a band of red which turns to green (representing good and bad compression). None of the cylinders on the right side left the red band, they got very close though, but the range was from 95-105 PSI if i can remember correctly. On the left side of the engine, those cylinders ranged from about 125-145. I'm no mechanic but i don't think thats normal. So as i said could this be a bad (or worse) head gasket on one side? I'm still very confused as to what the problem is, i guess i have to take apart the engine to find out at this point.

And one more thing, the inside of the plastic coolant container was sort of lined with this white to grayish black foamy stuff, i also found some of this white foamy stuff inside the rad cap but i think thats just chunks of corrosion, the inside rim of the rad cap was also oily but i think its from the rubber seal from the cap? Coolant has never been changed at least for 10 years so maybe its normal to be dirty like this.
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Old 09-06-2009, 01:02 AM   #9
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Re: What i found when i took off the valve covers..

It's certainly not good for the health of the cooling system to have old coolant in it - this becomes acidic over time and can corrode away things such as freeze plugs, aluminum intakes, water pump bearings, and yes - cylinder head gaskets.

Oil on the inside of the cap is NEVER normal. Nor is any sort of foam - so this lends credence to the head gasket theory.

FWIW the compression on my 320k-something 350 was around the 90-95PSI mark on all cylinders, which is what led to my head replacement about a month ago (at the same time battling strep throat and a complication of same called 'acute post-streptococcal glomerulonephritis'). The car went from 12-15MPG to 15-24MPG as a direct result of the head swap.
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Old 09-06-2009, 09:03 AM   #10
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Re: What i found when i took off the valve covers..

Quote:
Originally Posted by silicon212 View Post
It's certainly not good for the health of the cooling system to have old coolant in it - this becomes acidic over time and can corrode away things such as freeze plugs, aluminum intakes, water pump bearings, and yes - cylinder head gaskets.

Oil on the inside of the cap is NEVER normal. Nor is any sort of foam - so this lends credence to the head gasket theory.

FWIW the compression on my 320k-something 350 was around the 90-95PSI mark on all cylinders, which is what led to my head replacement about a month ago (at the same time battling strep throat and a complication of same called 'acute post-streptococcal glomerulonephritis'). The car went from 12-15MPG to 15-24MPG as a direct result of the head swap.
Yup, i guess that would explain my bad MPG no matter how much i feather the throttle. Filled the tank up yesterday and got 13.3. I'm getting the MPGs of the 350, but i'm not even getting any power back from the thing! So its a lose lose situation lol. I guess i know what i'll be doing today..
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Old 09-06-2009, 02:10 PM   #11
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Re: What i found when i took off the valve covers..

Here's some really good news for you. In looking at the video, it appears that you have a pair of '416 heads bolted on. If you can confirm that (casting no. 14014416) you should remove and prepare them for re-installation (cleaned valve faces and seats, screwed studs, check guides, new seals, new springs & retainers) with .039 gaskets to bump your compression a bit. The '416s have smaller chambers and reasonably sized valves (for a 305) and with just a bit more squeeze can help improve performance, efficiency, and therefore, mileage. It would be best to get rid of the valve rotators on the exhaust valves - They are useless. Even the factory gave up on them because they do nothing to improve valve life. While the valves are out, machine the guide bosses for lip seals. You can get a set of lip seals for dirt. A set of GM factory titanium retainers, keepers, and new springs is only about $70. Shim the springs to the proper height and forget about valve problems ever again.


Mr. Gasket P/N 1075 studs:




Lightweight valve spring caps (to be used with valve spring kit P/N 12495494, and key kit P/N 12495503):

GM Performance Parts P/N 12495492 - $19.95





LT4 valve spring kit, P/N 12495494 - $36.95 :





10º Lightweight valve retainer locks (keepers), P/N 12495503 - $12.95 :



And a pair of ROL HG31010T head gaskets, or Victor-Reinz (factory) GM P/N 10105117 gaskets w/0.028" thickness for about $18.95 each should seal it up nicely. The GM gaskets are still multi-layer composite gaskets with sealing rings, so you won't suffer any of the problems associated with simple coated steel shim or copper gaskets used in street engines. Even though they have a 4.080" gasket bore, they'll seal the 305 heads well and provide just about the right quench area with a "normal" .025 deck height. They are an improvement over the stock 0.045 or generic Fel-Pro 0.049 gaskets. Besides, I've had a couple runs of bad luck with Fel-Pro head gaskets.

The coolant, valve grind gasket set, and oil/fluids will cost you almost as much as the good parts.
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Old 09-07-2009, 09:05 PM   #12
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Re: What i found when i took off the valve covers..

Thanks Bowtie that was a solid post!
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