93 3.3 dies, runs four miles, dies, crank no start, ok in 2 hrs, for 4 miles

[Voyagenot]

This will be a long post! The van is a 93 plymouth LE with a 3.3 in it. The van has been in limp mode for 6 months, I only use it for a local errands, and I have continued to drive it below 40 mph while I searched for the problem. I took it to a tranny shop and changed fluids and filter and had the codes read. The TCM would not read out anything. The trans is a Jasper rebuild with 15,000 miles on it with a new tcm at the same time. I switched out the tcm and no help, but the new TCM did show a etax code, which has a number of possiblilties. The trans shop tried a new relay, no help, and said that all the other stuff for that code, 60 pin problem etc, would take hours to trace. About once a week, it shifts a few times normally, and goes back to limp mode next time I start it. Every once in a while there is a jerk, and the speedometer jumps, so I changed the output speed sensor, no help. Then a month ago, a new issue started. I drove to the YMCA, and when I came out an hour later, the van would crank, but not start. After a few attempts, it did start, but the frequency of this crank, no start increased, each time it took more fiddling. Sometimes it would not start in Park, but it would in neutral. Now it dies every four miles, and will not start at all for four hours. Then it is good for four miles. The fuel pump and filter were replaced 10,000 miles ago. I bought a filter anyway, and while I had the engine side of the filter off, I cranked the engine, and it filled up a bottle so I know the pump works, but I have not checked the pressure. I read 1000 posts looking for similar issues and checked grounds and the wiring runs. The valve covers leak so badly, the wiring harnesses were really funky, so I changed valve cover gaskets. Of course that is quite a job, and while I had the plenum off, I changed the cam sensor, plug wires, plugs, O2 sensor, coil pack and cleaned up the oil mess. No help. For the heck of it, I bought a PCM from Junkyard dog. No help. When the crank, no start issue began, the codes thrown were 11 and 53, which means basically no spark. Now when it dies, no codes show up. Accept sometimes for the last 6 months, I get a hesitation and a code 14 which is low voltage to the map sensor. Interesting, I tried a new map sensor, no help, so I returned it and put the old one back in. A bad crank sensor could stop the juice to the start circuit, I have not changed it, it was changed 15,000 miles ago. I have considered the possibility that I may have a short in the steering columm, but now that it is so predictable a problem, that does not seem to be where to look. If I go out to the van right now, it will start. about 5 miles down the road, it will die. Then, if I get a ride back to the van in two to four hours, It will run back home. I still do not know why when the crank, no start issue started, some times it would start in neutral, but not in park, unless moving the shift lever from park to neutral sent a pulse of electricity. It has progressed past that anyway.

Right after I wrote the post, I called the local dodge dealer and asked them if it was necessary to reprogram the TCM and PCM and the service manager said absolutely, so I drove it in. Actually I drove it halfway and it died. I had to call my Roadside service to tow me the rest of the way. I am waiting for their diagosis and suggestions.

[RIP]

I know little about generation 2 vans but believe the auto shutdown works the same as later models. Either the cam or crank sensor can shutdown the engine. Not sure how your coil is configured but next time it dies, using a meter check for the voltage pulse from the PCM at the coil connector. If it's not there there's a good chance the crank sensor has failed preventing the PCM from sending the pulse. At one time you were getting a crank sensor code (11). Makes sense to change it regardless of how old it is. Inspect the harness and connection first.

Have you tried a new input turbine speed sensor for your tranny problem. Many times shops will replace both when electrical associated tranny problems pop up. Hope the shop can nail it for you.

[Voyagenot]

The Dodge dealer called me and the service manager said that the computers did not need to be flashed or reprogrammed because they already had all the updates. He said no codes were being thrown and he spent three hours trying to get it out of limp mode. I think that in my original post, I forgot to say that I also put in a solenoid pack two months ago and that did not change anything, and at the same time I put in a input and output speed sensor. That is for the limp mode problem. As far as the crank sensor, I will change it tomorrow because it is another possible auto shutdown possibility, and it has not been changed for about 30 thousand miles. It is fairly easy to get to and I might as well try it. Whatever the crank, not start issue is, it seems to have something to do with warming up. As soon as the van runs for a few miles, it dies and will not restart until it cools down completely. When you said put a meter on the coil, is that a regular multi-meter (I have one) and where do I put the probes exactly? Thanks for the reply.

[Voyagenot]

I had a friend drive me to the dealer and I drove it home----halfway. It died at 2.6 miles on the trip odometer. I called for a tow home. I had picked up a crank sensor on the way to pick her up, so as soon as the tow truck unloaded it, I put in the new crank sensor and she started right up. I drove her around the block for 10 miles, started and stopped here a bunch and could not make her die. Hmmmmm. I think it is too early to call it a fix, but when I took out the old crank sensor the paper spacer was hanging off the side. I am now going to put the old crank sensor under a magnifying glass and see if I can find any visual defects. Are those spacers supposed to come off eventually? Are they only for the installation procedure? I am going to drive the van to the gym tomorrow (11 miles) and see if it strands me. If it does not, I will post it as a done deal.

[RIP]

Sure hope you got it. Yes, the paper spacer is there only to provide the correct clearance between the flexplate and the sensor tip during installation. I've only changed two of these over the years but in both cases the spacer was nowhere to be seen. From reading I get the impression this is normal. The fact your spacer was still intact on the side of the sensor could be an indication there may have been too much clearance or it may mean nothing at all.

[Voyagenot]

I am quietly optimistic that the new crank sensor has solved my problem. I drove the van all over town running errands and it did not die, hesitate, fail to restart, or throw the wierd occasional 14 (low map sensor voltage) code like it has been. Of course, I am also benefitting from the new valve cover gaskets solving the burning oil smell I was getting from oil on the exhaust manifold. It starts immediately because of the new wires and plugs, and having a new cam sensor, O2 sensor, and coil pack is not a bad thing, although probably a waste of money. I am still in limp mode, but you can't have everything. Since I already tried to solve that issue with a new solenoid pack, input and output speed sensor, switched out the TCM and PCM, and changed relays, and the transmission only has 20,000 miles after a jasper rebuild install, I may be able to focus on a bad wire in the harness and solve the limp mode. Maybe!

[Bear]

On my '96 it was the Crankshaft Position Sensor that caused the issue you describe, start run for maybe 15 minutes, then die. No restart until the engine was cold and then good for start and another 15 minutes.

[RIP]

One down and one to go. Good news. Now where's that damn wire? If you haven't yet, scour this forum using the search function. Though not recently I vaguely remember posts about transmission wiring issues. Check www.Chryslerminivan.net They have forum dedicated to second generation vans.

[Snoggnutt]

I feel your pain, we were given a 1993 voyager. The owner replace fuel filter, fuel press regulator, fuel pump, idle speed control valve dist rotor, ignition coil, throttle position sensor, oxygen sensor, main computer, relay switch. The van ran great for about 50 miles then you had to wait about a half hour. It stared running good so we to a short trip, ran fine all day, up to Palmdale then it started acting up. It took almost 5hrs to get home to Hesperia from there less than 50miles. Took it to the shop and replaced every thing in the gas tank and it has run fine for the last 5 and 1/2 years. You mentioned replacing the fuel pump did that replace the float at the same time. Hope this may help good luck.
Snoggnutt

[Bear]

On my '98 Neon same issue and it was the crank sensor. I tried to key code it but NO-GO. Took it to an indy tech shop 2 miles from me and we let her idle till she died and then he put a big scanner on her and voila, crank sensor. Replaced the sensor and three years later she is still running.