ABS and Brake light on

[Jmrec100]

I've had the car several years now. I was told that the sensor went bad which means the ABS function would not work and I'd have "regular" brakes. Since I am not a great fan of ABS anyway, I didn't worry about it. Now I want to find out the real story. The car stops fine . Is there another problem? When I do a brake job, I am careful and check the calipers etc. What should I be looking for?

Part 2 of the question.
Only recently am I having my front brakes "sticking" but sticking evenly on both sides. I think I am due to rebuild the calipers. Am I on the right track.
Thanks

[J-Ri]

Really need a code to say what to look for... broken wires where they bend at the steering knuckle and lower control arm are common, besides that, post the code(s)

What usually happens with the calipers is rust builds up around the slide pin bushing and presses it in, clamping down on the slide. Pull the rubber bushings out, clean the caliper with a round file, grease the holes, slide the rubber back in, and grease the slide pins. Almost always works as long as you can get the slides out. Very rarely the slides stick in and only the bolts come out, in that case, you will probably need to buy reman calipers. I've only had them stuck that bad one time, and then even an air hammer wouldn't take them out. Do be careful with the bushings, I've never found them sold alone, only sold when you buy a new or reman caliper!

[Classicrocjunkie]

Original poster, please post your problems in the J-body problem section..

k thanks.

[Jmrec100]

I bought new bushings from the dealer about 2 years ago. I thought I needed to replace them. But I really didn't need it. Only replaced them because I had problems with the caliper assembly. It was a stripped bolt for the slide. Not a good situation. I helicoiled it and it was fine. But lately I am finding the brakes are wearing FAST! The calipers must be sticking and not releasing. It it happening on both sides. When you talk about slides, bushings, bolts. You are calling the caliper assembly that the bushings fit into the "slide"? The bushings go into this slide and then the bolts slide in and out of the bushing. It may well be that the caliper "slide" is rusted with junk in it because the rubber bushings are difficult as heck to get out. I always clean the bushing well. And grease them well before installing the bolts. Do you grease behind the bushing too where it mounts into the slide caliper housing?
When I reassemble the unit, the bolts slide very nicely, and smooth. One trick I do is that since I have access to a lathe, I mount the bolts and with light sandpaper and a polishing compound, I polish those bolts so they shine. Nice and smooth. I use a white hi temp moly grease. I am wondering if the grease is swelling the rubber because the brakes seem to stick and not release for a few days while the brakes wear in. I've put on new pads and new rotors with still the same result. The car stops well but seems it maybe sticking. Something is going on where the brakes are not really releasing? After a few days , everything seems fine. The initial brake smell goes away and the car stops great. But they wear very quickly now. So they must be dragging. I took the tires off and the pads are worn again. Granted I drive alot of miles and its stop and go but its only about 2 months and 7,000 miles. ! I need to change pads this week. What should I look for? Maybe new seals for the caliper piston?

[J-Ri]

Originally Posted by Jmrec100

When you talk about slides, bushings, bolts. You are calling the caliper assembly that the bushings fit into the "slide"?

Do you grease behind the bushing too where it mounts into the slide caliper housing?

I use a white hi temp moly grease. I am wondering if the grease is swelling the rubber because the brakes seem to stick and not release for a few days while the brakes wear in. I've put on new pads and new rotors with still the same result. The car stops well but seems it maybe sticking. Something is going on where the brakes are not really releasing? After a few days , everything seems fine. The initial brake smell goes away and the car stops great. But they wear very quickly now. So they must be dragging. I took the tires off and the pads are worn again. Granted I drive alot of miles and its stop and go but its only about 2 months and 7,000 miles. ! I need to change pads this week. What should I look for? Maybe new seals for the caliper piston?

The slides (may be considered part of the bolt, or the whole thing may be called a slide pin like they are on the old GM trucks and RWD cars, I'm not 100% sure, but I call them that and the parts show up at the shop ) are the tubular metal things that the bolts are pressed into that slides inside the bushing which is in the caliper.

I scrape any rust out of between the bushing and the caliper and spray it out with penetrating oil, then push part of a rag through it, then apply a light coat of grease to the hole in the caliper and the bushing and then push the bushing through the hole, grease the inside of the bushing, grease the slides, push them through and then install the caliper on the steering knuckle.

I just use caliper grease. It can be used for everything on the car, so that's all I have at home or work. I know it's compatible with the bushings too. There could be a problem with the calipers that are making them stick, although I haven't seen it on any vehicle except for rear disc brakes on GM S&T series trucks and 1/2 ton C&K trucks. I have had 3 now that would drag after pressing the pistons back in. I have no idea why it happens, but every now and then one will just start smoking on the post-repair test drive. You may have something similar but to a lesser extent.

Also check that your rear brakes are adjusted properly, the front may be doing more than it should. That wouldn't fully explain pads lasting 7K miles, but it would make them wear out faster.

[Jmrec100]

Thanks. I will be doing brakes tomorrow night.

[Jmrec100]

The brakes went fine. The bolts to slide seemed smooth. I did use a different brand of brake grease that seemed "smoother". I have had a problem with the outer pad wearing more than the inner on both axles. Is this a sticky problem? Or normal.

Also, how many miles should I be getting between brake jobs. Seems I get about 12,000 miles before I need it. Should I expect about 18,000 to 25,000 miles? I do alot of stop and go driving, freeway and long commuter traffic.

[J-Ri]

Originally Posted by Jmrec100

The brakes went fine. The bolts to slide seemed smooth. I did use a different brand of brake grease that seemed "smoother". I have had a problem with the outer pad wearing more than the inner on both axles. Is this a sticky problem? Or normal.

Also, how many miles should I be getting between brake jobs. Seems I get about 12,000 miles before I need it. Should I expect about 18,000 to 25,000 miles? I do alot of stop and go driving, freeway and long commuter traffic.

The outer pad, as you probably noticed, is about 1/2 the thickness of the inner pad when it's new, so it always looks like it's wearing more. If it was worn significantly more, then the slides were sticking and not releasing and they were dragging all the time. See how long they last this time. It's possible there is pressure holding in the system and making them wear, but hold off on that until you see if different grease fixed it.

Depends entirely on how you drive it. In a Beretta (same pads/rotor/caliper, and similar sized car - probably a bit heavier)I had until a couple years ago, I went almost 50k miles and there was no noticeable wear on the pads from the day I bought it to the day I sold it. That's mostly highway (not in-city highway where you use the brakes), and even in town I'd coast up to stop lights and stop signs, so don't expect that many miles, but it is very possible. I've noticed about 10-20% wear on my Cavaliers pads in the 20k miles I've had it, and that is with some very hard stopping, but with at least 30 miles of highway every day also.

[J-Ri]

From http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=5972865

Originally Posted by Jmrec100

You get 50,000 miles on the front pads! Wow. Best I've done is about 16,000 miles. That is why I suspect a problem. But car stops straight, no pulling and very firm "grip"- not spongy when brakes applied. I will pull the wheels off and measure them every two weeks to see if I can see a pattern. Thanks for the input.

I actually would have got much more, I checked the brakes before I bought the car and I'd estimate they were at 80% up front, the last time I checked them, which would have been no more than 6k miles before I sold it, I would have still said they were at at least 70%. That was with lots of highway driving with absolutely no brakes, and I did clean the slides a few times, so I know they didn't drag at all. I also had many trips that were 300 miles round trip (maybe 20 or so), 2 or 3 trips that were 1,700 miles round trip, and one trip that was 2,400 miles round trip. That adds lots of miles but the brake wear of driving across town.

[Jmrec100]

Im beginning to wonder if the back brakes are really operating correctly? I was going to lift the car and press the brakes and see if the rear shoes are grabbing the drum by trying to rotate the tire. The car does stop and straight. Most braking is done in front but if the rear were not helping to brake, then the quick wear and the ABS light may be on for that reason? Is there a better way?

[J-Ri]

That's really the only way to do it. I'd recommend that you sit in the car after you get it up on jack stands, and press the brake pedal like you would on a normal stop and have someone else try to turn the wheel. If you push the pedal hard/far enough, the rear will lock up, so just depress the pedal as if you were stopping normally and see if they're doing anything there. If not, there's a "starwheel" adjuster at the top of the drum brake assembly just under the wheel cylinder, it's got a threaded rod that goes into a body that has a toothed ring around it. Adjust it a few clicks, it should only turn in one direction, to make it turn backwards, you need to pull the lever away from it. This lever is how they adjust automatically. If it is hard to turn, you'll need to disassemble the brakes and clean/grease all the contact points. If it turns easily, turn it in the direction that expands the shoes about 5 clicks, test fit the drum, turn 5 clicks, test fit, and keep doing that until the drum gets to where it drags on the shoes slightly. Do this with both sides, then put it back together. Go forward at about 10 mph, hit the brakes hard, go backward about 10 mph, hit the brakes hard. Keep repeating this 3 or 4 times, the shifting of the whole shoe assembly is what activates the automatic adjuster, and it shifts the most going between forward and reverse. Leting the automatic adjuster "fine tune" the adjustment ensures that both sides are adjusted equally. It only activates in reverse, so in the fiture to keep them adjusted up, be sure to back up and hit the brakes at least once a day. A lot of people don't back up (look for two parking spots and pull through the first so they're "backed in" to the second one, park on the street at home, etc), or do so so slowly that the adjuster doesn't work.

[Jmrec100]

Thanks. I will check the adjustment. I appreciate your detail. I did the rear brakes awhile back and did that adjustment just as you explained. I will have to recheck it this weekend. The more I pay attention to how it is stopping, I am believing that the rears are not braking correctly. Thanks for the advice.