2001 lumina wont even turn over

[lostwolf]

well its not the battery. i brought that into auto zone the other day nad head them charge it. figured the battery had a dead cell (starter was making the "machine gun" noise) now i got the battery in and i turn the key and i hear a solid thunk from the starter, but engine wont turn.

just got this car from my best friend for free. he says he was driving down the highway and all of the sudden the engine revved and then it died. he managed to start it once more and get it to a parking lot and as soon as he put it in park it died again. hasnt cranked since. i talked to the guys at autozone and i got told it could be anything from the solenoid/starter to the timing chain. im pretty sure its the starter(hoping its just the solenoid since i cant afford a new starter) desperatly praying its not the timing chain...

any ideas as to what it might be?

[jeffcoslacker]

Bad starter isn't gonna make it die on the highway.

Timing chain break is rare on these, unless it's got 150,000 miles or something.

I'd try to rotate the crankshaft by hand and see if the motor will even turn over. Could be the oil pump drive broke and he locked it up or something. Starter hits hard but won't turn the motor over sounds suspicious...

[lostwolf]

well it does have like 130k miles on it...

umm how do i test to see if its the oil pump locking up the motor?

keep in mind that im not quite car stupid, but im still learning. i had a hell of a time just finding the starter, and still couldnt get the damn thing off...

is there any other things it might be? i have to get this car running. i have no transportation at all. im desperate and will try anything, but i dont have much oney so mechanic is out of the question. i do have a neighbor at my apartment that is a mechanic but he's a drunk and i dun like asking him stuff...

oh and i did try to rotate the crankshaft by hand(the botom wheel on the belt??? the only one with a nut on it...) but it wouldnt budge

[manicmechanix]

Originally Posted by lostwolf

oh and i did try to rotate the crankshaft by hand(the botom wheel on the belt??? the only one with a nut on it...) but it wouldnt budge

I hate to break the news to you, but if you couldn't get the crank pulley to turn the engine over, then you probably have something broken internally in the engine jamming it up. I think some of the 3100 engines around your model year had camshafts that were suspectible to breaking. Is this what your car has, the 3100 engine?

[lostwolf]

i dont think so but im not sure...

how can i tell?

[manicmechanix]

Originally Posted by lostwolf

i dont think so but im not sure...

how can i tell?

I previously told you how you can tell. You should be able to turn the engine by the crank pulley with a long ratchet or breaker bar. If it won't turn over then you have something locking the motor up inside. Or are you aking how can you tell if you have a 3100 motor? It should say right on the top "3100".

[lostwolf]

what do you mean long ratchet or breaker bar?

all i have is a regular ratchet...

and it doesnt say 3100 on the top

[jeffcoslacker]

Originally Posted by lostwolf

well it does have like 130k miles on it...

umm how do i test to see if its the oil pump locking up the motor?

keep in mind that im not quite car stupid, but im still learning. i had a hell of a time just finding the starter, and still couldnt get the damn thing off...

is there any other things it might be? i have to get this car running. i have no transportation at all. im desperate and will try anything, but i dont have much oney so mechanic is out of the question. i do have a neighbor at my apartment that is a mechanic but he's a drunk and i dun like asking him stuff...

oh and i did try to rotate the crankshaft by hand(the botom wheel on the belt??? the only one with a nut on it...) but it wouldnt budge

Yes the bottom one is the crankshaft. It's not easy to turn, but should be able to rotate it with a socket wrench with a pipe on the handle or a breaker bar. I can usually grab the serp belt and turn a motor by hand, but it's not easy, some folks can't do that.

But at any rate have someone tap the starter while you watch the crank pulley. If it barely notches or doesn't move at all, but you can hear the starter whining silently while engaged, chances are the engine is seized. You'll burn the starter out doing this too much if that's the case.

I have heard a few engines break oil pump drives, and when it happens it acts kinda like you described...the engine seems to race momentarily because it is suddenly free of the load of pumping oil, which takes a significant amount of horsepower...then without lubrication they begin to get tight and stall out quickly. If this was the case, and he was able to restart it and drive it off the road, it's probably toast now.

But that's just a guess...could be any of a number of other things.

But first thing is to determine without a doubt if the crank is free to rotate, and if not, you probably don't need to pursue it any further...because the repair is going to be both beyond your mechanical ability and/or budget...sorry....just being realistic here...

But if the crank will rotate, we might be able to walk you through what to do next...

[ctwright]

Originally Posted by lostwolf

what do you mean long ratchet or breaker bar?

all i have is a regular ratchet...

and it doesnt say 3100 on the top

Just a regular half inch drive ratchet or breaker bar like he said should turn the crankshaft pulley. If you couldn't get it with your ratchet then don't even worry about a breaker bar because you should be able to turn it with the ratchet, they aren't that hard to turn, usually a breaker bar is used just to break the bolt loose if you have to change the pulley.

Just for the fun of it though, take your belt off then try turning the pulley with your ratchet, maybe lucky and something else locked up and you can't turn it because of the belt. If the crank pulley does turn then check all of your other pulleys and see which one doesn't turn, alternator, water pump, power steering, etc. just whatever you have on there. I really doubt that though because I think the starter should have enough power to turn the motor over and that if something else was locket up the belt should just rub over it.

Oh, a breaker bar, has the same plug that a ratchet has that goes into your socket, just doesn't have any ratcheting action like a ratchet, just a long bar that has that on the end. Try this too just for the heck of it if the crank pulley still doesn't turn, make sure the motor has plenty of oil, may even spray some wd-40 down in where the oil cap is. Let it sit over night, then go back and try to turn it again, with a long breaker bar this time, and if you get it, just keep turning it around and around for a bit. Then put everything back together and try to start it up again.

PS, make sure that when you are turning the bottom pulley you are turning it clockwise.

[jeffcoslacker]

Originally Posted by ctwright

Just for the fun of it though, take your belt off then try turning the pulley with your ratchet, maybe lucky and something else locked up and you can't turn it because of the belt. If the crank pulley does turn then check all of your other pulleys and see which one doesn't turn, alternator, water pump, power steering, etc. just whatever you have one there. I really doubt that though because I think the starter should have enough power to turn the motor over and that if something else was locket up the belt should just rub over it.

.

Good thought, I didn't think about that. Could be a locked up A/C bearing or something...that would be great news for him

When I was a kid, my mom and I were driving through Death Valley in her 1972 Datsun 510 wagon...it was 118 degrees...and the car suddenly stalled and stopped. The starter wouldn't turn it over.

Towed to a shop in town, the mechanic said the motor locked up. Completely despondent, mom called her ex, who drove all the way from Denver to come get us.

When he got there, he looked under the hood, had her try to crank it....took out his knife....and cut the belt off the smog pump...and it started right up! ...smog pump had seized up, and that little motor didn't have the power to turn the belt that wouldn't move!

Hope he gets lucky like that...but I agree, it's a long shot. A V6 will usually slide a serp belt over a locked accessory or break the belt...a little more torque than an anemic early 70's Datsun 1.3L

[richtazz]

Before we go any further, lets figure out what engine you have as each engine offered in your car has it's own set of inherent flaws that could cause your problem. The upper plenum or plastic engine cover should have the displacement on it, but if that's not readily visible, the 8th digit of your Vin# denotes what engine it has.
If it's the letter K, you have a 3800
If it's the letter J, you have a 3100

From what you're describing, I would put my money on a serp belt driven pulleyaccessory failed/locked up, so try starting the engine with the belt removed. If it starts, you found the area you need to check more thoroughly. A locked up accessory like an A/C compressor or water pump can keep the engine from starting and/or cause it to stall.

[ctwright]

Originally Posted by richtazz

From what you're describing, I would put my money on a serp belt driven pulleyaccessory failed/locked up, so try starting the engine with the belt removed. If it starts, you found the area you need to check more thoroughly. A locked up accessory like an A/C compressor or water pump can keep the engine from starting and/or cause it to stall.

Just want to say that I've seen a motor turning over with someone else in the vehicle with the key where a pulley was locked up(didn't budge from start up). The motor was turning but not fast enough to crank the engine and it had a serp belt and it was wearing the belt down, the belt had good tension on it. His problem wasn't it cranking, he said the motor wouldn't turn at all. Even knowing that I told him already to take the belt off and check anyway just incase. So there is no reason to repeat what someone has already said pretending to be some genious that knows everything.

[jeffcoslacker]

Originally Posted by ctwright

Just want to say that I've seen a motor turning over with someone else in the vehicle with the key where a pulley was locked up(didn't budge from start up). The motor was turning but not fast enough to crank the engine and it had a serp belt and it was wearing the belt down, the belt had good tension on it. His problem wasn't it cranking, he said the motor wouldn't turn at all. Even knowing that I told him already to take the belt off and check anyway just incase. So there is no reason to repeat what someone has already said pretending to be some genious that knows everything.

Man you got balls snapping on Rich like that....

1. He is a genius, and he does know nearly everything.

2. You spelled genius wrong, genius.

3. There's no room for attitudes here, we're all just trying to help the guy. Settle down....

[ctwright]

Originally Posted by jeffcoslacker

Man you got balls snapping on Rich like that....

1. He is a genius, and he does know nearly everything.

2. You spelled genius wrong, genius.

3. There's no room for attitudes here, we're all just trying to help the guy. Settle down....

Who cares about spelling on these things anyway alot of people spell things wrong on the keyboard, and in my case it was probably wasn't a typo I just misspelled it. Who cares. But either way I already told the person to do the same thing pretty much, once someone already gives a person one option to look at give them another idea or wait till they come back and let you know what happened when they tried whatever and go from there.

[jeffcoslacker]

Originally Posted by ctwright

Who cares about spelling on these things anyway alot of people spell things wrong on the keyboard, and in my case it was probably wasn't a typo I just misspelled it. Who cares. But either way I already told the person to do the same thing pretty much, once someone already gives a person one option to look at give them another idea or wait till they come back and let you know what happened when they tried whatever and go from there.

Really? Because it sounds like you just wanna run the show.

You missed things I wrote...rich may have missed things you wrote. No need to be calling people out over it.

You really wanna get in bad with two moderators over stupid shit like this?