Just made some repairs and now won't start!!

Laurieiniowa · #1 03-10-2009, 09:21 PM

We have a 2001 Ford Windstar with a 3.8 engine and we are getting ready for a vacation and changed the oil, put on a new serpentine belt, changed the fuel filter, replaced the ac hoses (discharge and suction assembly) and replaced the heater blend door actuator. Now it won't start. Just hear a sound like the battery doesn't have enough power but there are interior lights and headlights still but won't start. Just a loud clicking sound. The lights are kind of flickering too. Any ideas??? Thanks!

Laurie

wiswind · #2 03-10-2009, 10:06 PM

A couple things to try......
1st....try shifting into Neutral to start....if this solves the problem, you need a new neutral safety switch....aka Transmision Range Sensor (TRS).
2nd...Verify battery condition.....might be failing under load (starting is about as big of a load as it will see).
3rd....Check connections at battery terminals and down by the starter (including Ground).

A weak battery is very likely....but don't overlook giving the battery terminals a cleaing and verify thightness of the connection.

12Ounce · #3 03-10-2009, 11:18 PM

Have you tried "jumping" the battery. If this works, the battery may be suspect ... also, there are some important relays that get a bit lazy with age (kinda like me) but a little extra voltage will kinda revive them. (Haven't tried it on me yet.)

PCM power relay and the SS relays are prime suspects ....

northern piper · #4 03-11-2009, 08:57 AM

I would also check the middle brake lamps. There are 3 and when 1 burns out it will slowly drain a battery. The work that you did may be purely circumstantial. I've had the rear brake lamp drain my van's battery 3 different times requiring a jump start. I think it's a really faulty circuit. Mine van is a 2000 but I'd expect your van to be similar or identical.

Piper

garync1 · #5 03-11-2009, 07:18 PM

yep my 3rd brake light has a bulb out and I had to jump mine this morning. Even when headlights turned off my lights flickered real fast and nothing.. Thanks for the reminder... Oh just one of the bulbs are bad not all..

Waxhaw · #6 03-11-2009, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by northern piper

I would also check the middle brake lamps. There are 3 and when 1 burns out it will slowly drain a battery. The work that you did may be purely circumstantial. I've had the rear brake lamp drain my van's battery 3 different times requiring a jump start. I think it's a really faulty circuit. Mine van is a 2000 but I'd expect your van to be similar or identical.

Piper

OK, I've got to bite on this one northern piper and garync1. What has Mr Ford done to drain a battery when a brake light goes out?

I think you are talking about the third brake light in the rear window which must have three bulbs in it?

northern piper · #7 03-11-2009, 08:08 PM

Hi Waxhaw. I know this is kinda wierd. My impression of this, right or wrong, is that when the bulb burns out there must be some sort of resistor within the bulb to keep the other 2 lit when the brake pedal is pressed (series circuit). Somehow, when one (or 2 or 3) of the bulbs burn out there is a parasitic drain caused by the bulb. I know that this is true as I chased a parasitic drain (with a fluke digital volt meter) for 3 days before giving up. Then I followed my wife home (while she was driving the van) and saw the middle bulb of the cluster of 3 was burned out. So, I immediately replaced the bulb and the parasitic drain was gone. By gone I mean that I used the same volt meter and measured the drain on the battery and it was zero. Problem gone.

Why? dunno. This is one of those "just accept it" and move on as far as I'm concerned. Some people have mentioned that as the middle light was a safety "add on" that the wiring is a bit funky.

I'm just happy the problem is solved. Too many other things to work on.

Piper

Waxhaw · #8 03-11-2009, 08:27 PM

HA! Great job as usual piper. OK, I'll just accept it too and I think this one will stick in the 'ol memory for future use! Hope that fixes Laurieiniowa's problem also.

Waxhaw · #9 03-11-2009, 08:36 PM

Thanks piper, great job. Yep, I'll just accept it and stick that in the 'ol memory for use later. Hope one of the above suggestions help on Laurieiniowa's problem.

12Ounce · #10 03-11-2009, 09:06 PM

The way that the external lamps are wired allows some wierd things to happen. Years ago, lamps had "constant" ground on one end of the filament . The other end of the filament was supplied 12 volts (or 6 volts if you go back far enough) when some switch was closed.

But today, at least on the Windstar's external lamps, the lamp filament is supplied a constant 12 volts on one end, and the other end gets ground "supplied" through a wire to some switching device. Everything is switched around! The problem is, the lamp holders are designed much like they were years ago .... the base still sits at ground! ...not by intent, just because of mounting screws or whatever ... at least, its that way on many of the lamp holders. So, the filament breaks ... perhaps touches the lamp base ... dead battery!

Those high mount brake lamps are in parallel, I think.

RahX · #11 03-11-2009, 11:07 PM

They switched the control around on a lot of things like that from a power controlled to a ground controlled circuit because it is a lot easier on components to control the ground as there isn't any real power on the ground side. The CHMSL is parallel, and the REM module controls the ground for em. Not sure that a burnt out bulb would drain the battery if the module controls the ground.

12Ounce · #12 03-12-2009, 09:29 AM

The metal chassis is still ground ... it takes a bit of bad luck, but if the failing lamp creates a path between the 12v supply and ground, even if it is just a carbon track .......

northern piper · #13 03-12-2009, 10:36 AM

you said it 12ounce! I've got fantastic bad luck!. 3x this has happened. Now I actually drive around with a couple of spare brake lamps in the glove comp.

12Ounce · #14 03-12-2009, 07:26 PM

Northern, the stars and planets may be lined up against you, but I'd bet something else is going on ...:

I'd bet you have a damaged conductor, probably skinned insulation, on the "ground signal" wire that goes between the upper brake light fixture and the REM (Rear Electronic Module). On my '99 model, that is a TN/LB conductor. Ocassionaly that damaged wire falls against body metal and the lamp turns on ... but you don't know it, you may be asleep! The brake light continues to be on .... BUT brake lamps aren't designed for continuous service, they are high wattage lamps and the light fixture can't dissipate that much heat. So eventually the weakest of the lamp filaments gets so hot it burns out ...now the fixture cools a little ... and the battery is near dead.

Bet if you inspect that fixture's insides, you will find it is well-scorched.

That particular wiring harness is fished, near the liftgate hinges, into body holes and liftgate holes .... lots of chances for it to get damaged. Where exactly? I dunno, ....somewhere hard to find.

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