Engine wish list.

[jmimac351]

Brian, what size carb is the "smaller" one you're using? Did the throttle response change down low?

[AIMidwest27]

FYI - Engine Block Weights

Cu-in / Weight (lbs)
302 / 129
A4 / 160
R302 / 181
Boss 302 / 165
Dart 302 / 160

351W / 169
B50 / 133
Dart 351W / 190
Dart 351W AL / 97
ManO' War AL / 110

Best 351W Blocks 69 and 70
All pre 94's are non-roller

[NZGTRA17]

Dart 302 Ally block is 83lbs and has max recommended capacity of 385 cubes.

[panozracing]

Originally Posted by jmimac351

Brian, what size carb is the "smaller" one you're using? Did the throttle response change down low?

I listed this in a previous post in this thread....
390cfm holley and a 650 (I think) barry grant demon (same size as a stock panoz 5.8L holley).

We had a bit of trouble getting the 390 to run. It does not like to idle. Throttle response is great. Its not as nasty as the 650 but its a 100hp less. I found the 390 is easier to drive then the 650. the 650 has a lot of wheel spin to manage. The 390 will still spin the tires but you will need to be heavier on the throttle.

[jmimac351]

Originally Posted by panozracing

I listed this in a previous post in this thread....
390cfm holley and a 650 (I think) barry grant demon (same size as a stock panoz 5.8L holley).

We had a bit of trouble getting the 390 to run. It does not like to idle. Throttle response is great. Its not as nasty as the 650 but its a 100hp less. I found the 390 is easier to drive then the 650. the 650 has a lot of wheel spin to manage. The 390 will still spin the tires but you will need to be heavier on the throttle.

Thanks, I thought that's what you were recommending, not actually using. Everyone thinks they need a big carb, right?

[panozracing]

Originally Posted by jmimac351

Thanks, I thought that's what you were recommending, not actually using. Everyone thinks they need a big carb, right?

RIGHT.... a 390 carb will feed a 427ci motor and spit out 450rwhp and 500rwft and get great gas mileage (well compared to a 650cfm). Now a bigger carb will get much more power but we wanted a restrictor carb......

[PRO SYSTEMS]

Obviously, you've tried juggling squirters to get rid of burst spin problems and linkage connectors to widen the range of the torque curve throughout the throttle opening...so the next thing is to increase the spring pressure on the throttle.

It works.

Patrick James
PRO SYSTEMS

[jmimac351]

Originally Posted by PRO SYSTEMS

Obviously, you've tried juggling squirters to get rid of burst spin problems and linkage connectors to widen the range of the torque curve throughout the throttle opening...so the next thing is to increase the spring pressure on the throttle.

It works.

Patrick James
PRO SYSTEMS

Patrick, what you are describing there is one of the reasons why I was considering staying EFI. Even with the low power of the stock setup, I feel like I can modulate the power on the edge better with the stock EFI than with carb setups I've had in other cars. Granted, they were "bolt on and make sure you have WOT" carb setups which may be part of the problem. I like that you're talking about that stuff because it makes me think I should check that out. It seems like the only info to be found about carb setups is bolting on a Dominator and driving 1/4 mile, or tuning out a stumble and making max power. Very little about "feel"...

[panozracing]

Originally Posted by jmimac351

Patrick, what you are describing there is one of the reasons why I was considering staying EFI. Even with the low power of the stock setup, I feel like I can modulate the power on the edge better with the stock EFI than with carb setups I've had in other cars. Granted, they were "bolt on and make sure you have WOT" carb setups which may be part of the problem. I like that you're talking about that stuff because it makes me think I should check that out. It seems like the only info to be found about carb setups is bolting on a Dominator and driving 1/4 mile, or tuning out a stumble and making max power. Very little about "feel"...

My engine builder was able to setup both carbs perfectly for road racing. We had no feel issues with either carb. I think I was misunderstood. The 390 carb produces less horsepower. The less horsepower is what makes things easier to drive not the carbs. When we drove with 100hp more (keep in mind we drove about 10 hrs. of track time like this compared to over 60hrs with the 100hp less setup) our seat of the pants reaction was WOW. tons of power. It was very easy to give too much throttle and spin the tires. With the 390 carb and 100hp less (with the same amount of rubber and grip) obviously you have to give more throttle to spin the tires. Both carbs build power fast and run thru the RPM range perfectly. Our engine builder spent time on the engine dyno with both carbs and set them up for us so we had choices. Never once have I thought the carbs were not tuned correctly. The dyno sheets are picture perfect with both carbs. I have never thought I wanted EFI.

[jmimac351]

Sounds nasty...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnUJComslfQ

[Wess-RA]

Brian, did I see a yellow Radical in the video? That would be saying a lot-beating a 1300# car. Nice job. When I told a buddy of mine that I thought you won over a Radical he said it wasn't possible with a Panoz. Tell me its true-I would love to be able to make the claim.

[panozracing]

Originally Posted by Wess-RA

Brian, did I see a yellow Radical in the video? That would be saying a lot-beating a 1300# car. Nice job. When I told a buddy of mine that I thought you won over a Radical he said it wasn't possible with a Panoz. Tell me its true-I would love to be able to make the claim.

I just checked mylaps.com and I qualified #1 and finished overall #1. So you can say that a Panoz outran several radicals that day. I race against radicals all the time and beat a few. But, in your friends defense, a good driver in a radical will leave us behind. They are just too light!

[Gatorac]

Originally Posted by panozracing

I just checked mylaps.com and I qualified #1 and finished overall #1. So you can say that a Panoz outran several radicals that day. I race against radicals all the time and beat a few. But, in your friends defense, a good driver in a radical will leave us behind. They are just too light!

So are you saying that the driver is actually partly responsible for the performace of a race car????

I never would have guessed.

[Wess-RA]

Hey you have proven that you caaan beat the Radical. Good enough for me!!! Nice.