This is just .... wrong

[VR43000GT]

Originally Posted by 2strokebloke

I also think it's funny that some of the same people who dislike my generalizations about certain southern states apparently have no problem making generalizations about certain northern states

I do hope that is not directed towards me. If it is, let me refresh your memory...

Originally Posted by SL3000gt

And while I completely agree, you can't lump everyone into a group and call them all the same...I will say that when I was in NYC it consisted of the most unpleasant people I have ever been around. So many people came off as rude and seemed to ONLY care about what was happening to them with no regard for others. So I guess this does not surprise me that much that it happend up there. It is a place that I will never visit agian.

And it did consist of the most unpleasant people I had ever been around...just NYC. I nowhere said all of them and even made a point to make sure that eveybody understood that I didn't mean all of them.

[2strokebloke]

Originally Posted by BNaylor

What has that incident got to do with this issue

It has to do with a large number of people in a frenzy. Don't play stupid. That's the point, when people are in a crowd and excited they don't think.

My observations and comments concerning New York are based on my actual experiences there since I have visited the state including New York City every year for the past four years until my oldest son graduates from West Point which thank goodness is this May 2009. After that no more visits and no love lost. And the roads suk too!

Well I'm sure you visiting NY gives you a far more informed opinion of the area than say me living in North Carolina for five years and in Georgia for two and a half... But then again, I think I share your opinion of NY, only applied to GA.

[BNaylor]

Originally Posted by 2strokebloke

It has to do with a large number of people in a frenzy. Don't play stupid. That's the point, when people are in a crowd and excited they don't think.

Stupid is as stupid does. ..... Simplistic explanation but acceptable.

Originally Posted by 2strokebloke

Well I'm sure you visiting NY gives you a far more informed opinion of the area than say me living in North Carolina for five years and in Georgia for two and a half... But then again, I think I share your opinion of NY, only applied to GA.

Trust me you would not like it there. Nice place to visit but living there is another issue. The same applies to New Jersey where my family was originally from.

I lived in the Atlanta, GA area for over two years (Marietta, Cobb County) so I know what you are talking about. Traffic is terrible. The chicks were nice and friendly though.

[twospirits]

A few bad apples does not spoil the bunch. And yes while we New Yorkers get hated and I agree some do really stupid things, not all are like that. And certainly its not as bad living here in the city as some may say.

I live 2 miles away from Valley Stream and even on non-busy holiday promotional events like Black Friday does that place get too crowded and weird. Best Buy had as much people at its doors and yet they had the smarts to properly manage the entrance and keep it under control. The management of the place should have known better.

TS

[YogsVR4]

In the words of the poet "Shit happens"

Hindsight makes everyone an expert and the situation obvious.

My guess, this isn't the first time that multitudes of stores had people barge their way in. I aslo bet this isn't the first time someone has has gottne run over. While it should certainly get management at various stores thinking of better ways to handle the crowds, I don't believe the situation was as easy to predict as so many people seem to believe.

[ericn1300]

Originally Posted by YogsVR4

In the words of the poet "Shit happens"

Hindsight makes everyone an expert and the situation obvious.

My guess, this isn't the first time that multitudes of stores had people barge their way in. I aslo bet this isn't the first time someone has has gottne run over. While it should certainly get management at various stores thinking of better ways to handle the crowds, I don't believe the situation was as easy to predict as so many people seem to believe.

Wow, your post is quite a contradiction. First you say “My guess, this isn't the first time that multitudes of stores had people barge their way in. I aslo bet this isn't the first time someone has has gottne run over” then you say “I don't believe the situation was as easy to predict”.

Are you saying repeated behavioral responses in the past are not predictive?

[BNaylor]

Originally Posted by twospirits

A few bad apples does not spoil the bunch. And yes while we New Yorkers get hated and I agree some do really stupid things, not all are like that. And certainly its not as bad living here in the city as some may say.

We will deem you as the exception and not the rule Dave.

BTW - I'll be up in your neck of the woods in May.

[fredjacksonsan]

Originally Posted by twospirits

A few bad apples does not spoil the bunch. And yes while we New Yorkers get hated and I agree some do really stupid things, not all are like that. And certainly its not as bad living here in the city as some may say.

I live 2 miles away from Valley Stream and even on non-busy holiday promotional events like Black Friday does that place get too crowded and weird. Best Buy had as much people at its doors and yet they had the smarts to properly manage the entrance and keep it under control. The management of the place should have known better.

TS

I have to take the bait...so it's management's fault for not handling the crowd that the man died? Basic human decency wasn't in evidence. Since when is it more important to get a bargain than to take care of someone being trampled?

Although....if I'm at the door and there's a couple hundred people pushing from behind, I'm not going to be able to stop and help someone that got knocked over.

Animals.

[fredjacksonsan]

Originally Posted by twospirits

A few bad apples does not spoil the bunch. And yes while we New Yorkers get hated and I agree some do really stupid things, not all are like that. And certainly its not as bad living here in the city as some may say.

I live 2 miles away from Valley Stream and even on non-busy holiday promotional events like Black Friday does that place get too crowded and weird. Best Buy had as much people at its doors and yet they had the smarts to properly manage the entrance and keep it under control. The management of the place should have known better.

TS

I have to take the bait...so it's management's fault for not handling the crowd that the man died? It's the crowd mentality - basic human decency wasn't in evidence. Since when is it more important to get a bargain than to take care of someone being trampled?

Although....if I'm at the door and there's a couple hundred people pushing from behind, I might not be able to stop and help someone that got knocked over.

I didn't see anyone on TV saying they'd tried to help the guy. Animals.

[YogsVR4]

Originally Posted by ericn1300

Wow, your post is quite a contradiction. First you say “My guess, this isn't the first time that multitudes of stores had people barge their way in. I aslo bet this isn't the first time someone has has gottne run over” then you say “I don't believe the situation was as easy to predict”.

Are you saying repeated behavioral responses in the past are not predictive?

I'm sorry, I didn't make my post clear enough. I meant nobody was predicting that a person will be trapmpled to death. Sure people have pushed their way into stores, concerts, parks and a million other places. Sure people have been knocked down by these louts, but does that mean death is the predictible outcome? If thats the case, I'd presme there would be a lot more trampelling deaths out there. A quick look at wiki didn't even rate it so it sits less then .06% of deaths.

I stand by my assertion that a pushy crowd could be predicted - death wasn't a resonable prediction.

[twospirits]

Originally Posted by fredjacksonsan

I have to take the bait...so it's management's fault for not handling the crowd that the man died? It's the crowd mentality - basic human decency wasn't in evidence. Since when is it more important to get a bargain than to take care of someone being trampled?

Although....if I'm at the door and there's a couple hundred people pushing from behind, I might not be able to stop and help someone that got knocked over.

I didn't see anyone on TV saying they'd tried to help the guy. Animals.

While I agree that the crowd were acting like wild animals, my point is that this has happened before and at the same location with the exception of a death happening this time around. And if I am not mistaken it happened last year, so with that being so fresh in the mond of some, its only logical that they take steps so that it does not happen again, but as we can see it did and with tragic results. This is why I say that management should have known better.

TS out