My 94 Passport wont start after sitting for 3.5 months

[dis360]

Car specs:

1994
Honda
Passport
3.2 V6
171,000


History & Problem:

My 94 Passport wont start after sitting for 3.5 months. I bought the car from a friend about a year ago (sat for 1.5 years

with no battery before I bought it), and used it with no real problems. Only thing I can say that I noticed when it was

running was black smoke coming from the tail pipe when I would goose it while parked, but would stop after 10 minutes. I took

a long vacation and parked it in my parents backyard. I returned to get it and went to start it and the battery was

completely dead, something drained it slowly. I took out the battery and fully charged it and reinstalled it. Went to start

it and it just cranks no sputtering or anything just turning over (can hear it cough out the intake rarely while cranking).

Here is what I have done.

1. Added water remover to the gas tank
2. Added 6 gallons of new gas to the existing 1.5 originally in the tank
3. purged 2 gallons of gas through the fuel rail (looked like piss and smelled weird, like not very potent. purged it until it smelled like strong gas)
4. Checked compression (all above 100 psi)
5. Checked if air was coming from tail pipe while cranking
6. Replaced all spark plugs
7. grounded each spark plug to check for spark while cranking
8. checked fuel pressure it is 40 psi
9. checked trouble codes No stored codes (code 12 displaying, for confirmation in diag mode)
10. replaced crank position sensor
11. sprayed ether and gas directly into the intake
12. tested 2 of the spark plug wires (10K ohms)
13. Checked all fuses


Thoughts I have:

Could the coil not be putting enough spark out? It was a pretty big spark on each terminal!?
Could the gas be that bad still? Wouldn't ether and strait gas in the in the intake rule that out?

I need help please, any thoughts. Thanks for taking the time to read this

[Cat Fuzz]

You said you sprayed ether into the intake but didn't say what the result was.

We can assume the fuel pump is working since you used it to purge bad gas. We know you have spark, we know you have fuel pressure. The third ingredient that we don't know if you have it or not is air. Try holding the throttle open a bit while cranking. If it fires up, your IAC valve needs cleaning or replaced. If it still doesn't start, your fuel injectors could all be gummed up from the bad fuel. Gasoline turns to varnish after a couple months and will coat the fuel system with a coating of nastiness.

[dis360]

Thanks for reading and your response. I have tried multiple throttle positions while cranking with absolutely no difference, except being able to hear more from within the engine while open. When I sprayed the ether in and attempted to crank, the weird thing is there is no difference to not using it. No fireballs coming out of the intake, nothing to hint towards combustion or igniting of the ether. Same goes for squirting gas in. Saying that does that rule out the injectors being gummed up as the primary problem due to the fact the ether doesn't even ignite? If not what would be the best test or solution for dealing with that? Or is it best to just remove the intake fuel rail ect.. to pull out the injectors. THANKS

[Cat Fuzz]

Just a brain fart here but I would check the timing belt next. The top covers come off pretty easily. Take one off and observe the cam rotation while cranking. If it doesn't turn, busted timing belt. Don't worry, it's not an interference engine.

You're getting fuel and spark. The ether should have fired off. The only thing I can think of that would prevent that is a broken timing belt.

[dis360]

Yea good thinking but that's the only thing I forgot mention. I checked the belt it looks good and it turns both cams.



I can't imaging what could be preventing it from firing.
I wonder if it's possible the spark could be weak (don't know if that's even possible, but the ether is doing absolutely nothing) or maybe the ECM is malfunctioning (but it has spark). That is the only two things I can think of.

Crazy what 3.5 months of sitting in the backyard did. The engine never had a problem starting, not once. I even drove it into the spot it's stuck at now.

I appreciate the input, anything is great cause I'm out of ideas

[dis360]

I almost want to completely purge the gas tank. I'm just not sure that's the issue. When I parked the car in the back yard it had a half and half mixture of 1.5 year old gas and 3 month old gas. When it wouldn't start I added water absorber to the gas and added 6 gallons of fresh 93 octane gas. The next day I purged 2 gallons from it in hopes to suck and bad stuff from the bottom of the tank.

I wonder if the cylinders could be filled up with watery gas (i don't if it stays in the cylinder or gets shot out the exhaust port) from my first attempts to start it preventing anything (fresh gas, ether) from firing.

I can't say for 100% but me and my father both noticed the spark plug tips (the sparking side) looked wet (like unburned liquid), when I took them out when doing the compression test.

But the ether not lighting still makes me think it's not the fuel that's the problem.

ugghh

[Cat Fuzz]

The only other thing I can think of is that the little bit of bad fuel still left in the fuel rail is fouling out your plugs. You purged bad gas but the schrader valve is before the injectors IIRC. The plugs fouling out would not allow the ether to light up. I would figure out some way to get the fuel out of the rail and injectors. Pull one of the fouled plugs and give it a sniff. If it smells like stale gas, that must be the problem.

[dis360]

I agree with you, because it still smells like bad gas when I crank it. I'm off to remove the fuel rail and injectors (hope it's not too tuff). I'll post how it turns out.

[dis360]

OK. Today I siphoned 10 gallons of gas that smelled weird and looked like apple juice from the tank. Next I purged the rest of it (1.5 gallons) through the fuel rail (now tank and fuel rail is empty). Then I added 1.5 gallons of fresh gas to the tank.

Absolutely no difference when cranking the engine (nothing, not even with ether). So I took out the spark plugs and looked through the hole as someone cranked it. I can see the piston move up and down and gas being sprayed on the piston (on every cycle) then shot out as a mist through the spark plug hole. Also the gas smells fresh now. I know for sure now that the gas is good and being sprayed into the cylinder. But still when I crank it over then remove the spark plug it looks wet (smells like FRESH, UNBURNED gas).

Next I took out a spark plug and attached it to it's wire. Put a bit of gas on it on the electrode, then cranked it (I'm checking if there is enough spark to light the gas). It lit up. I referred to the Hanes manual (not very impressed by it) and read the ignition module may not be giving off enough volts. I didn't have anything to test it with so I bought one and installed it. Absolutely no difference (even with the ether).



I'm sratching my head hard now. Is it the timing? Which is controled by the crank position sensor (been replaced) then through the ignition module (been replaced) then through the PCM. Maybe I have to get a PCM next (I had an Eagal Talon once that had the exact issue, bad PCM). But on the flip side the PCM is doing everything else correctly, even fires the coil (but maybe at the incorrect time)

Thanks for reading, any input is great!!

[FL 3.2L]

Sounds too simple, but is the intake clear of debris. No mice in the airbox?

[dis360]

I've been asking myself if there is a dead cat in the intake. But as far as I can see into the intake it looks clear, and the air filter and tube has been remove (strait intake opening exposed). I can feel vacuum against the intake when I put my hand against it while cranking it. Also I get air coming out of the exhaust pipe when it cranks over. I wonder if that's enough to prove the intake is free and clear.

[Cat Fuzz]

That's a stumper.

Some thoughts falling out my head here:

Does it crank smoothly? Get any backfires or does it slow down suddenly while cranking? The only thing left that I can think of is valve timing. The only way for valve timing to be off is if the timing belt jumped a cog or two.

[FL 3.2L]

I think you have to check the marks at this point.

[Cat Fuzz]

Yeah, Time to pull the timing belt covers. It's not hard. The alt, p/s and a/c can all stay in place. IIRC just get the fan, fan bracket, coils and coil bracket off then you have access to the covers. Geez, been working on to many cars lately. I can't remember if the cover is three or four pieces. You'll probably want to get the harmonic balancer off. You can get it with an impact if you use a short socket or use the breaker bar on the frame and bump the starter method.

[dis360]

The engine cranks equally as smooth from start to finish (you might get the tiniest sputter after cranking for a minute combined). It doesn't backfire at all while cranking it over. I will check the marks on the sprockets next. At this point anything is possible.