98 3cyl Metro Randomly cuts out and stalls

[NHxj4x4]

Hey guys, 1st post. I just bought a 1998 Metro 3cyl tonight and she has some issues. The rust I'm OK with, I might need some advise on that pesky driver's side control arm mount thing, but all that aside I REALLY need some advise on what it going on with her. It's a 5sp, 126K on the clock.

So 1st and 2nd gear seems to be just fine, the idiot light works and all. When you shift to 3rd it's OK most of the time, but 4th and 5th are a nightmare. The engine randomly cuts out, sometimes the power comes back, sometimes it stalls. The gas pedal is completely non-responsive. When the gas is floored it doesn't do it, but zero gas to about half way down it just does it whenever it feels like it. I had a 90 mile trip home like this and it took us 4 hours.

Here is what I have done/ checked so far:

-Put in Mid-grade gas, and a bottle of fuel injector cleaner
-Cleaned the bejeezuz out of the TBI with starting fluid (all they had at one of the many gas stations I stopped at tonight with it) and scrubbed with a toothbrush even. The air box was DIRTY and GUNKY and even had a nice puddle of OIL in it. Once I cleaned all of this it ran much better, we got almost 20 miles before it started doing it's thing again. Tried cleaning again, ran better ETC ETC but the stalling/ cutting out didn't go away.

New Parts Installed:

-PCV valve and PCV Flip
-Plugs and Wires
-Oil and Filter
-Ditched the air filter and make a warm air intake (WAI)

None of these things helped the problem in the least. I'm pretty much out of ideas but might try to cut the cat off and install a test pipe really quick to see if that has something to do with it. Anyone know the OD or ID of Metro Exhaust pipe BTW?

When it runs, it runs well, but this constant bogging/ cutting/ stalling stuff has got to stop. Does anyone have any thoughts on this...PLEASE.

Again it's a 98 Metro 1.0L 5sp

Thanks!

Todd

[NHxj4x4]

Just ran out at lunch and got a new exhaust. I'll try that tonight and if that fails I'm thinking perhaps the injector or the fuel pump. What do you guys think?

[sbiddle]

I would check for fuel pressure and flow rate. Maybe your fuel pump... isn't.

[NHxj4x4]

Whelp, I replaced the exhaust tonight and it still does it. I guess I'll do the fuel pump and filter over the weekend if I can find the parts. Any advise on the fuel pump?

Thanks,

Todd

[GM Line Rat]

Originally Posted by NHxj4x4

I guess I'll do the fuel pump and filter over the weekend if I can find the parts. Any advise on the fuel pump?

Thanks,

Todd

Todd, BEFORE you drop the fuel tank and replace the fuel pump (It's inside the fuel tank).........Replace the fuel filter (Next to the tank) and have your fuel pressure properly checked with a gauge by a competant shop, or buy a fuel pressure gauge at the local autostore and check it yourself. Fuel pressure check (Key ON, Engine OFF)....... fuel pressure should be 23-30psi. Post back what the readings are? Here's a couple of pics to help you out on the Fuel filter and the entire fuel pump replacement process. Start with a new fuel filter and see if it increases the fuel pressure readings to the correct range? If not, No harm done.......But the either the Fuel pump is weak, or the Fuel pump sock itself is clogged /Dirty and needs to be replaced (Both of which require Dropping the fuel Tank). Dropping the fuel tank in the Geo is child play compared to other Cars.

Fuel Pump Replacement process - Geo Metro.

1. Disconnect the Battery ground wire.
2. Remove the lower rear seat and disconnect the fuel pump wire harness, then push the rubber grommet /harness thru the floor pan.
3. Jack up the rear end of the car approx 18" off the ground and support on both sides of the car with jackstands and wheel chocks in the front of the car.
4. Drain as much fuel as you can from the tank by removing the fuel filler hose from the fuel tank, then running a siphon hose to a spare 5 Gal empty fuel can. Have a spare can ready in case there is more than 5 Gal of fuel in the tank. If the filler hose wont come off easy, you can do this process after the fuel tank is slightly lowered down.
5. Now get a Auto floor jack and a small (18" X18") Piece of Plywood, put the plywood on the base of the floorjack, then center the floorjack under the middle of the fuel tank.
6. Pump the jack up just enough to support the fuel tank......Then remove the 4 Bolts that hold the fuel tank in place to the car.
7. Lower the fuel tank down JUST ENOUGH To remove any other hoses connected to the fuel tank from the Fuel Filter, Pull the fuel pump harness clear of anything it could catch on and put it on top the tank.
8. Then lower the floor jack all the way down and pull the fuel tank out from under the car.
9. Now take a garden hose/Small scrub brush/ Soap and "Gently" wash all the dirt / debris off the TOP of the fuel tank that's been on there for years!.....Let the top of the tank Air Dry.
10. To Access the fuel pump Assy is by removing the screws around fuel sender base cover base , and lifting the cover up. Be gentle when doing this and guide the assy out of the tank!
11. Drain ALL the remaining fuel in the bottom of the tank (Dont save it, get rid of it.....It probably has some rust in it).
12. Now Check/ clean out the bottom of the fuel tank is as you can to get rid of any sediment / Rust in the bottom of the tank.
13. Buy a NEW "AC-DELCO" / GM fuel pump kit that includes rubber seals, wire connections and a new Fuel filter sock in it.
14. Make note or take pics with a digital camera of the fuel pump assembly BEFORE you take it apart as a reference in case you forget the Re-Install procedure........Reverse this procedure to re-install the whole setup.

Here a couple of good pics you can use to see the process. If you haven't installed a new fuel filter, and you change the fuel pump.........Install a NEW fuel filter also whilke the tanks out of the car (It's easier).

Fuel Filter 1



Fuel Filter 2



Top of Fuel Tank

[NHxj4x4]

GREAT info man, thank you. I looked and looked online and I couldn't find a reference to an external fuel filter for the 98's, just reference of the sock inside. I'll look tonight for a fuel filter, but again I don't know what part to buy for her. I was pretty bummed last night that's for sure after getting the exhaust back on and the problem persists. I did in fact order a new fuel pump, but I wouldn't mind that being a spare that's for sure, I'd love to get away with just a filter but I thought that it was in the tank. So where do I buy a filter?Thanks! Todd

[NHxj4x4]

nevermind on the Fuel filter. I found it. Autozone and NAPA don't list one so I called a few local guys. It's WIX # 33569 I'll try that tonight or tomorrow guys, thanks. As far as the fuel pressure goes if this doesn't work I'll run to a shop and see if they can take that reading for me really quick, the guage is $50 and that's more than the new Injector I bought this morning.

[Woodie83]

98 doesn't have a fuel filter. I don't think it's a fuel pressure problem at all. You say it doesn't do it when the pedal is floored, that's when it needs maximum fuel delivered. I think it's the MAP sensor or the TPS. Could be a bad ground, these cars are famous for that and the sensors all rely on a bundled ground point below the intake manifold. No check engine light?

[NHxj4x4]

Originally Posted by Woodie83

98 doesn't have a fuel filter. I don't think it's a fuel pressure problem at all. You say it doesn't do it when the pedal is floored, that's when it needs maximum fuel delivered. I think it's the MAP sensor or the TPS. Could be a bad ground, these cars are famous for that and the sensors all rely on a bundled ground point below the intake manifold. No check engine light?

Hey Woodie,

I was thinking TPS as well, but it doesn't even think of doing it in 2nd or 1st, so I thought that it was a delivery issue. WTF fuel filter did I buy then LOL? How can I test the TPS and MAP? No CEL either

[mengel]

Check your battery connections, and make sure they are tight, and actually connecting to the battery. Try grabbing, and seeing if you can wiggle them. if so, replace them. My wife's 98 Metro did this exact same thing, drove me crazy, and I finally realized that one of the battery connectors had eaten almost all the way through with battery acid, and wasn't making a good connection at the battery. So, with the high resistence of that battery connector, it would randomly sputter/stall at any speed, (usually around 30-35) or whenever it could cause you the most anxiety. I sawed off the connector with a hack-saw (really hard to do!) bared back the wire, and scrubbed it with sandpaper really clean, and used a new generic top post battery connector from the auto store, which screws down to the wire really tightly.

I also cleaned up the posts on the battery really good with a wire brush (make sure you don't short the battery! You'll be sorry if you do, and maybe even DEAD if it explodes, so be careful!) Once I screwed the connectors back on to the battery, I coated them with a plastic spray to cut down on any possible new corrosion, or acid-eating problems. This cured the sputtering/cutting out.

Only difference, is her Metro is a 4 cylinder, 1.3l 5 speed LSI model, but this might still apply to you.

[NHxj4x4]

Originally Posted by mengel

Check your battery connections, and make sure they are tight, and actually connecting to the battery. Try grabbing, and seeing if you can wiggle them. if so, replace them. My wife's 98 Metro did this exact same thing, drove me crazy, and I finally realized that one of the battery connectors had eaten almost all the way through with battery acid, and wasn't making a good connection at the battery. So, with the high resistence of that battery connector, it would randomly sputter/stall at any speed, (usually around 30-35) or whenever it could cause you the most anxiety. I sawed off the connector with a hack-saw (really hard to do!) bared back the wire, and scrubbed it with sandpaper really clean, and used a new generic top post battery connector from the auto store, which screws down to the wire really tightly.

I also cleaned up the posts on the battery really good with a wire brush (make sure you don't short the battery! You'll be sorry if you do, and maybe even DEAD if it explodes, so be careful!) Once I screwed the connectors back on to the battery, I coated them with a plastic spray to cut down on any possible new corrosion, or acid-eating problems. This cured the sputtering/cutting out.

Only difference, is her Metro is a 4 cylinder, 1.3l 5 speed LSI model, but this might still apply to you.

Thanks for the suggestion, but the battery is fine of this guy, one of the only things come to find that actually works on this boat anchor. I'll post back after the injector gets here, that's next and then if that doesn't do it I'll tackle the damn fuel pump and test the TPS. Anyone have the specs on how to test the TPS? I have to get a Chilton's for this thing I guess.

[brivers]

Does it smoke real bad when cutting out? If yes then pull the dipstick out and test drive it. I know this sounds stupid but try it.

[NHxj4x4]

Originally Posted by brivers

Does it smoke real bad when cutting out? If yes then pull the dipstick out and test drive it. I know this sounds stupid but try it.

Sounds interesting No smoke, but WTF, I'll give it a shot.

[NHxj4x4]

So it was the Injector guys. Everything is fine now, and I guess I have a spare fuel pump if anyone needs one =)