Loud knocking in cylinder head area

[CaliAuto909]

This damage occured in a 4 cylinder 93 Camry. Somehow the oil filter came loose and the engine loss oil resulting in a loud knocking sound from the cylinder head area, as well as a light amount of white smoke coming from the right valve cover area. The knocking was steady with idle RPM's and increased with the RPM's when I gave it gas.

I've already disassembled the engine/cylinder head to be taken to a shop, but as I was removing components from the cylinder head, (a sensor and bracket or two) I also removed the spark plugs. 4th plug from the left was completely coated in motor oil where the plug boot attaches.

How could this have happened?? And could this have been the source of the knocking?

[jdmccright]

Sounds like a blown head gasket. The coated plug prevents normal sparking, thus normal combustion.

[inafogg]

if ur lucky & didnt run too long with no oil the damage is all in head/cam & bearings.

[CaliAuto909]

I'm being told it's something worse, now, like something damaged in the block. A connecting rod bearing or crankshaft main bearing. If this is the case I may be screwed.

I'd like some more feedback on this.

To elaborate on the knocking sound it was more like a clack noise......sounded like CLACK! CLACK! CLACK! CLACK! CLACK!

[Mike Gerber]

"I also removed the spark plugs. 4th plug from the left was completely coated in motor oil where the plug boot attaches."

This is not the source of your major problem. This is common on 5SFE 4 cylinder engines (also 3SFE engines). The 4 large 30MM nuts on the of the cam cover just needed to be retorqued to 19 ft lbs in several even steps. Oil was leaking over the top of the spark plugs tube seals and down in to the spark plug tubes themselves. This is not a big issue. The oil filter coming loose and the loss of the oil, and then oil pressure was the problem.

Mike

[inafogg]

just a reply on the clack the way it sounds its the valves clacking.why do u think lower end did someone look at it???

[Soilent Green]

I don't know how the lower end could have a link to it, but my other 300 000 kilometers Camry I had before used to clack on the first morning start and would keep clacking until warmed up and the noise went away. There was never any shavings in the oil, there was never any blue smoke, the car pulled alright, seafoam through the brake booster, little bit in the crankcase a week before oil change, seafoam in the gas tank to clean the injectors, nothing cured my car of this Fordy noise, and then I sold it for another identical Camry.

It bothered me a lot at first and I never got to know what it was, but it never seemed to get worse so I let it slide and put money aside for a new head in case I needed one...

[ProMan]

1. The oil on the plug is no big deal and should not cause any noise.

But I would like to chime in with how to fix it. Tighten the big nut on top of the tube actually won't help. Because the oil doesn't leak from the top, but the bottom. If you would like to fix the leak, take off the valve cover so the tube is exposed. Then use a tube wrench to take the plug tube off (turn ccw). coat the thread at the bottom of the tube with high temperature sealant and crew it back. You won't see any oil in the tube anymore.

2. Clanking noise, this is bad. If it sounds like "Clannnnk Clannnk...." then I would say it's the connecting rod bearing. It's burnt and the crank shaft is hitting on the connecting rod. It's a major repair.

But, if it sounds like "cha cha cha....", then it may be a valve clearance issue.

Anyways, if the engine ever run without oil, the big chance is the CS bearing or the connecting rod bearing (more likely) got shot since it's not really a "bearing", it's just a layer of copper shims wrap around the CS. Without lubrication, it got burnt immediately and the gap between the CR and CS becomes huge and you will hear the clanking noise.

Good luck and let us know what is the final outcome.

[CaliAuto909]

Originally Posted by Mike Gerber

"I also removed the spark plugs. 4th plug from the left was completely coated in motor oil where the plug boot attaches."

This is not the source of your major problem. This is common on 5SFE 4 cylinder engines (also 3SFE engines). The 4 large 30MM nuts on the of the cam cover just needed to be retorqued to 19 ft lbs in several even steps. Oil was leaking over the top of the spark plugs tube seals and down in to the spark plug tubes themselves. This is not a big issue. The oil filter coming loose and the loss of the oil, and then oil pressure was the problem.

Mike

Hmm. I did have a loose valve cover bolt when I was disassembling.

Originally Posted by ProMan

1. The oil on the plug is no big deal and should not cause any noise.

But I would like to chime in with how to fix it. Tighten the big nut on top of the tube actually won't help. Because the oil doesn't leak from the top, but the bottom. If you would like to fix the leak, take off the valve cover so the tube is exposed. Then use a tube wrench to take the plug tube off (turn ccw). coat the thread at the bottom of the tube with high temperature sealant and crew it back. You won't see any oil in the tube anymore.

If the spark plug tube screws off, there could be a pretty good chance that it's loose. I'll have to check that out and possibly seal 'em up as you mentioned.

Thanks!

[CaliAuto909]

Originally Posted by inafogg

just a reply on the clack the way it sounds its the valves clacking.why do u think lower end did someone look at it???

No, but I'm getting more feedback from another forum.
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=251644

Originally Posted by ProMan

2. Clanking noise, this is bad. If it sounds like "Clannnnk Clannnk...." then I would say it's the connecting rod bearing. It's burnt and the crank shaft is hitting on the connecting rod. It's a major repair.

But, if it sounds like "cha cha cha....", then it may be a valve clearance issue.

Anyways, if the engine ever run without oil, the big chance is the CS bearing or the connecting rod bearing (more likely) got shot since it's not really a "bearing", it's just a layer of copper shims wrap around the CS. Without lubrication, it got burnt immediately and the gap between the CR and CS becomes huge and you will hear the clanking noise.

Good luck and let us know what is the final outcome.

The "Clannnk Clannnk Clannnk" sound you mentioned seems to alter the sound I'm trying to describe. Your "Clannnk" noise makes it sound like there's metal "panging" with the "CLACK" noise I'm trying to describe. It's more or less a loud heavy sharp tap noise that stays in rythm with the RPM's.

The damage you mentioned about the CS and CR bearings is the type of feedback I'm getting from members on another forum.
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=251644

[CaliAuto909]

Originally Posted by Soilent Green

I don't know how the lower end could have a link to it, but my other 300 000 kilometers Camry I had before used to clack on the first morning start and would keep clacking until warmed up and the noise went away. There was never any shavings in the oil, there was never any blue smoke, the car pulled alright, seafoam through the brake booster, little bit in the crankcase a week before oil change, seafoam in the gas tank to clean the injectors, nothing cured my car of this Fordy noise, and then I sold it for another identical Camry.

It bothered me a lot at first and I never got to know what it was, but it never seemed to get worse so I let it slide and put money aside for a new head in case I needed one...

That sounds like a common valve adjustment issue. When the head components are cold, there's a slightly larger gap between the lifters and camshaft lobes causing the tapping noise. As everything heats up in the motor the components expand with the heat and close the gap, and the tapping goes away.

[Brian R.]

The only knocking-type problem I have seen from oil starvation is a destroyed con rod bearing. The knocking is the con rod onto the crank. I think the main bearings don't take the beating as badly as the con rod bearings do and they have a better oil supply.