gas prices- a deeper look

[Steel]

Originally Posted by 03cavPA

Absolutely. I love paying more for goods that have been transported by diesel powered vehicles. It just makes me feel all warm and fuzzy.

Yeah, we need to get rid of all those turbodiesel cars, too.

How did the truckers' protest go? Haven't heard much about it.

I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not, but if not, you (and ericn1300) should be less ignorant about diesels. Most diesel pickups you see on the road are actually used for their intended purpose of heavy duty hauling and pulling. Modern diesels are clean as a whistle, I bet you've passed countless VW TDI's and not even realized they were oil burners (and getting 50 MPG too). Theres a reason why engines in industry and ~50% of the cars in europe are diesel: they're simply more efficient. Most of your goods that have been transported by truck or rail - diesel. You can't blame the type of engine for the fuel prices, of course prices on EVERYTHING are going to go up if fuel has been going out of control. And I don't understand how diesel climbs so much faster than gasoline, even though it's a less processed fuel.

If i could afford to buy one, I'd be sporting a Jetta TDI right now. It would sure make the 50 mile round trip to school and 90 mile round trip to work a lot less painful seeing as how my protege wagon only gets ~27MPG.

[ericn1300]

Originally Posted by Steel

I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not, but if not, you (and ericn1300) should be less ignorant about diesels. Most diesel pickups you see on the road are actually used for their intended purpose of heavy duty hauling and pulling. Modern diesels are clean as a whistle, I bet you've passed countless VW TDI's and not even realized they were oil burners (and getting 50 MPG too). Theres a reason why engines in industry and ~50% of the cars in europe are diesel: they're simply more efficient. Most of your goods that have been transported by truck or rail - diesel. You can't blame the type of engine for the fuel prices, of course prices on EVERYTHING are going to go up if fuel has been going out of control. And I don't understand how diesel climbs so much faster than gasoline, even though it's a less processed fuel.

If i could afford to buy one, I'd be sporting a Jetta TDI right now. It would sure make the 50 mile round trip to school and 90 mile round trip to work a lot less painful seeing as how my protege wagon only gets ~27MPG.

Only 27 mpg in a cramped, low end, Mazda? Pitiful. My American made Pontiac 4 door sedan gets 33 mpg, 25 in town, as it goes zoom zoom past you. As far as the Jetta, the interest cost on the loan and the increased insurance cost will eat up any savings in fuel you may be envisioning.

"It is a known fact that diesel engines are much more expensive than gas engines. If we try to consider the overall benefits offered by gas engine, many would not hesitate to choose a gas engine over diesel engine"
http://www.dieselvsgasvehicles.com/

More Californians Killed By Diesel Pollution Than Homicide
Governor Announces Major Diesel Cleanup Investment; New Report Tracks Diesel Death by Region, Los Angeles Tops Diesel-Related Deaths http://www.ucsusa.org/news/press_rel...-homicide.html

[72chevelleOhio]

Originally Posted by ericn1300

More Californians Killed By Diesel Pollution Than Homicide

I'd say someone's moving numbers, that sounds like B.S...
The smoke is "bad" but nothing close to a gas engine. The exhaust from a gas engine reeks, burns my eyes, and hurts to breathe. Diesel's don't (with the exception of a pulling truck or tractor), the newer the "better"..

Originally Posted by Steel

Modern diesels are clean as a whistle

Cleaner, no spit!
'07 Emissions for heavy duty on-highway diesels (aka big trucks, 18 wheelers, big rigs whatever you want) state "no black smoke" the stack ("tailpipe") stays clean...with 2010 Emissions they should be putting cleaner air out the exhaust then they take in the air filter.

[ericn1300]

Originally Posted by 72chevelleOhio

I'd say someone's moving numbers, that sounds like B.S...
The smoke is "bad" but nothing close to a gas engine. The exhaust from a gas engine reeks, burns my eyes, and hurts to breathe. Diesel's don't (with the exception of a pulling truck or tractor), the newer the "better"..

The numbers ain't moving in the direction of your point of view.

For the same load and engine conditions, diesel engines spew out 100 times more sooty particles than gasoline engines http://www.lungusa.org/site/pp.asp?c=dvLUK9O0E&b=36089

[72chevelleOhio]

Originally Posted by ericn1300

The numbers ain't moving in the direction of your point of view.

Your numbers are from April of 2000....Since then there has been major changes in emissions requirements of heavy duty diesel engines.
The first is the introduction of an EGR system in '03.
The next was requiring significant software changes to pre '03 engines or fines were paid. Also the required ultra low sulfer fuel introduction.
Now in '07 we have the next level of EGR with the no soot law.

Next will be the "air cleaner" engine in 2010.
Like I said the newer the "better"...

EPA

Beginning with the 2007 model year, the harmful pollution from heavy-duty highway vehicles will be reduced by more than 90 percent

Emission breakdown

[03cavPA]

Originally Posted by Steel

I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not, but if not, you (and ericn1300) should be less ignorant about diesels.

OF COURSE it's sarcasm. It was referencing the comment made about being glad the price of diesel might keep the pickups at home.

Save the "ignorant" remarks. I'm well aware of the economies and tech specs for diesels.

I added a smilie in the original for ya.

[-Davo]

My sources tell me that demand is up, supply is down, thanks to China and India.

[YogsVR4]

I'm just enjoying reading all the news articles playing the blame game for the prices. There is a stunning lack of thought or research being used by the news media today.

[BNaylor]

Supposedly this the first time in history gasoline use of China, India, Russia, and the Middle East will exceed that of U.S. consumption. So what is wrong with that picture? IMO it means that the U.S. is using way too much and not doing enough about it as usual to conserve. We created this monster.

Recently, the Saudis told the current administration that they will not increase oil production and that the westernized countries must suffer the consequences of their own making. Congress's passage (both House and Senate) of a bill to stop adding oil to the strategic reserves when the price of a barrel of oil is over $75 will be worthless. Of course, the current administration opposes the bill. The strategic reserves is around 700 million barrels which would only be a 1-2 month supply. See link below.

The United States consumes just under 21 million barrels of oil a day, according to the Energy Department.


“When the President meets with King Abdullah on Friday, we cannot settle for a smile, or a handshake, or even a glimpse into his soul,” said Senator Charles E. Schumer of New York. “We need a commitment to pump more oil. If Saudi Arabia and other OPEC countries do not substantially increase production, we in Congress will block their lucrative arms deals.”

Both the President and Vice President Dick Cheney have called on the Saudis to increase their output of oil.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/14/business/14oil.html

[03cavPA]

“When the President meets with King Abdullah on Friday, we cannot settle for a smile, or a handshake, or even a glimpse into his soul,” said Senator Charles E. Schumer of New York. “We need a commitment to pump more oil. If Saudi Arabia and other OPEC countries do not substantially increase production, we in Congress will block their lucrative arms deals.”

Chuck Schumer is a jackass. If they don't get arms from us, they'll get them elsewhere. Yeah, let's rattle our saber and send them packing to China to acquire arms.

Maybe it's time to start with a smarter energy program here at home. Cheap oil is history and we're behind the curve on alternatives and responsible use.

The one thing we DO have as a bargaining point is --- FOOD. We can still provide lots of it to the world. If we really want to be hardassed about it, it's time to put the screws to the hungry masses. China, India, Russia, and especially the ME, will be hard pressed to use that oil to quell the riots that will break out when their people are starving.

Dunno, though, should we be starving out the masses just so we can still enjoy our inefficient energy wasteful lifestyle here at home?