2000 Taurus Won't start intermittently

[epagonizomai]

I looked around a bit on the forum but couldn't find an answer, or anyone else who seemed to have the same problem with my car.

It starts consistently with no problems ever, even on cold mornings, etc, EXCEPT when it has been recently driven. i.e. if I come home, park it, and go out shortly after...

It just plain doesn't crank at all...lights work, interiors work, etc, but no crank, just dead.

I was thinking a starter problem, but since it's around $130 for the part, I didn't want to do it before seeing what others think, or seeing if others have had the problem with a cheaper/simpler fix. Thanks for any help/suggestions.

[shorod]

Welcome to the forum!

Do you at least hear a click, either faint or hefty to indicate the relay and/or solenoid is engaging?

Those symptoms sound very much likd a starter issue. Next time it happens, try tapping the starter with a blunt object. If that allows the engine to crank and start, then you can be quite certain in the diagnosis.

If you have a multimeter with Max Hold feature, you could clip it on to the starter leads, turn the car to Start and verify that voltage is making it to the starter. If no Max Hold feature, you'll need two people.

If there's no power to the starter when the key is in Start, then you get to play with the Transmission Range Sensor (TRS), ingition switch, and possibly the PATS/Securilock components.

-Rod

[tripletdaddy]

I'd like to add, just in case it is this simple, I have had a problem with the ignition switch wire at the starter on two of my vehicles. It is the smallest wire to the starter connected to it by a spade female connector. It gets dirty and loose keeping the solenoid from being energized and energizing the starter. I figure while you're down there, it's worth checking. Getting it tighter ended my problems, but I'm afraid your problem doesn't sound like this would be it. Sorry. Good luck.

[epagonizomai]

Thanks for the suggestions guys!

As dumb as it may sound, I can't remember if it clicks or not...(it's only been doing it for a couple weeks, and since it's so intermittent, I haven't really had a lot of chances to identify exactly what happens).

I'll try the couple things you recommended (testing voltage...if I can, and tapping on the starter), and let you know what I find out.

Thanks again. I'll get back when I know more.

[bigtexas1986]

I've had a similar problem for some time now. It happens randomly and usually after I've driven it for a bit, like I'll drive home from work and stop and check my mail then I go to start it back up again and it doesn't start. I can hear the solenoid engaging though and everything will turn on, the A/C, radio, lights everything. I've replaced the ignition switch, starter, it's got new plugs and the coils are fine. The alternator checks out and so does the battery. Fuel filter and pump check out fine, though I should probably replace both soon. All the connections seem good. I've checked everything I can think of. I saw in another thread it could possibly be the crank sensor wires, could this possibly be the cause? Any other ideas?

[shorod]

Does the engine crank and just not start, or do you only get the click? If the engine doesn't crank, the problem isn't your fuel pump, fuel filter, or crank sensor. If it does crank fine, then it won't be starter, ignition switch, multifunction switch, or starter.

Do you have tools to be able to check spark and/or fuel pressure?

-Rod

[bigtexas1986]

I hear the solenoid trying to catch, that's the only sound I hear. Kind of a "vrrrrrrr" sound. Doesn't get past that, but everything else turns on like it should. I'll try between one and five times with no ignition. Once it starts though I have no troubles. Runs smooth, acceleration is great. I've tried pumping the gas a bit and turning the key to where the instruments turn on a few times but it doesn't always work.

[shorod]

From your description, it sounds like the starter motor is spinning but the solenoid is not engaging the gear, so the engine is not turning over. Does that sound accurate? Basically, is the engine turning over, or just the starter motor?

If the engine is not turning over, the problem won't be solely fuel, spark, or sensors. Did you replace the starter motor, or the starter assembly with a new solenoid?

-Rod

[bigtexas1986]

I replaced the whole assembly. I'm at my wits end on this one. All electricals are checking out, all plugs are firing, a lot of parts are new.

[shorod]

It's still not clear to me from your posts if the engine is turning over from the starter (is the serpentine drive belt turning the pulleys when you try to start the car) or if the starter motor is making sounds like it's spinning, but it's not engaging the engine.

Did you check the flywheel before installing the new starter motor assembly to make sure there wasn't a flat spot on the flywheel?

-Rod

[bigtexas1986]

Sorry if I wasn't clear, no the serpentine belt wasn't turning. The starter just sounds like it's trying to catch and engage but it's not for some reason. No I didn't check the flywheel. Didn't think it was part of the problem.

[shorod]

Okay, if the serpentine belt is turning, the starter is not engaging the engine. That rules out a few things as the primary issue such as the fuel pump, fuel filter (really the entire fuel system), the ignition system, and the PATS sytem. It really sounds like maybe you got a defective starter assembly, something that is heat-related.

-Rod

[bigtexas1986]

I thought so too but this is the second one I've installed in the past 8 months. Doubtful I got two faulty starters.

[tripletdaddy]

Did you have your previous starter tested at a parts store? Is it possible that the starter is just a little bit off in it's installation to cause this? I've had that problem where it wasn't properly aligned so that the drive gear couldn't engage with the flywheel. I'd try pulling it out and see if it can be repositioned. Are you certain the starter is turning but not engaging? If not, maybe while you have it out, connect the wiring and just bump the key or some other method with helper and be sure the drive gear gets kicked out, because it can spin even if not out. Worst case, have the parts store test it.

This scenario reminds me of my lawn tractor when the battery was getting tired and weak. It could spin that starter no problem, but it just didn't have enough in it to throw the gear up into the ring gear, so I would help it with a screwdriver. Once it ran long enough to recharge the battery, it would do better at starting. It's not identical to your situation, but you may have a power delivery problem to the starter, whether it's the wiring, connections, battery or a combinations thereof. See if your battery can handle a load test at a parts store.

This may not be a ground issue since things are turning, but it wouldn't hurt to be sure the mating surfaces are clean. It can happen, but I'm surprised that you are having the SAME EXACT PROBLEM as before you replaced the starter. Maybe you need to do a wiggle test. You test for continuity through all of your wires to the starter and shake them to see if you momentarily loose continuity. If you don't find anything, then, do whatever it takes for this thing to fail to start, preferrably at home, etc., and then try to start it. When it won't, then try bypassing your ignition switch wire to the starter, which is the small one, by connection your wire to BAT + and CAREFULLY touch ONLY the ign sw connection. This can be done also by securing the wire to the starter and then touching the battery+. It should crank the engine. If not, then you can either use a screwdriver to jump the terminals, which you need to know what you are doing or use jumper cables. Locate the terminal with the large wire from the battery+ and connect your jumper there and on the battery+. It should at least be able to turn the engine some when turning the key to start. If you connect to the the motor terminal on the starter then you should just touch the battery+ for a short moment as it will spark and you will only get the starter motor to spin. Nuf said. Good luck.

[bigtexas1986]

I didn't do the first one, my mechanic friend did that one but from what I could tell on the second everything looked fine. I'll take another look soon as I have a chance and try out what you guys said. Something's obviously off just a bit because it usually starts up fine, even when cold. Probably just moving just enough to break the circuit to where it won't work then settles back and engages.