Loose Steering/Poor lane tracking 91 Caprice

[PeteA216]

Yeah, I see what you mean. I do actually check all steering a suspension components everytime I happen to be under the car.

[red88jeep]

Hi Again. I got the loose steering/poor lane tracking problem resolved. After sniffing around the front end, rear suspension and steering column and not finding anything wrong for the 6th time, I took the car back to the tire store (Discount Tire /Americas Tire) and talked to them again about the problem. They took it in and did something they called a "Tire Road Load check" or some such thing. I have no idea of exactly what it really is or what they do. Never heard of it before. Anyway, they took it off, did something with it and remounted it. They basically turned it around on the rim and aligned it with the wheel rim for lateral and radial runout. They rebalanced it and put it back on. Guess what? problem is gone. The car is steering straight (back to the Chevy steering on novocain. Its as numb with lack of road feel and feed back as almost every big Chevy made.) The wheel is centered again and it goes down the road more or less directly like it should. Rides smoother too. (wish it had a good quick ratio rack and pinion system though.) I guess the lesson from this is that tires can cause symptoms that simulate major mechanical flaws and it takes folks who know what they are doing to solve them properly without spending a lot of money. (my cost, $0.00 as I have a life time balance, rotation and flat repair with my tires.) Thanks, Ron

[bobss396]

That happens sometimes, but usually the tip off is the tire takes an excessive amount of weight upon the first balancing. Normally tires should require a reasonable amount of weight, the ones with problems require something like 3 ounces and up.

If it wasn't the initial balance, I would say that your tire didn't have one of the beads fully seated when it was first mounted. Every tire needs a visual inspection after it is mounted, most of the tires you can eyeball pretty accurately and see if the bead is uniform.

That would easily cause your problem. If you don't know to look for it on a mechanic level it can drive you nuts. But they did the right thing and broke the tire down (used lots of soapy water) and remounted it. All's well that ends.

Bob

[j cAT]

Originally Posted by bobss396

If it wasn't the initial balance, I would say that your tire didn't have one of the beads fully seated when it was first mounted. Every tire needs a visual inspection after it is mounted, most of the tires you can eyeball pretty accurately and see if the bead is uniform.

That would easily cause your problem. If you don't know to look for it on a mechanic level it can drive you nuts. But they did the right thing and broke the tire down (used lots of soapy water) and remounted it. All's well that ends.

Bob

If the rim bead area was not cleaned properly and they added too much water to the bead sealant/lurbricant to save a few $$$ this could have caused the bead not to seat properly, but the tire will be balanced...basicly an out of round tire causing a shifting effect.....going down the road...

[red88jeep]

Hello, Just to further my education on tire behavior issues. I guess we are now moving in the more advanced area of tire/chassis setup knowledge. Just to clarify, the tire did not have a lot of weight installed. I think the total weight was less than 2 oz. The wheels are in excellent condition and the bead area is not damaged or corroded. After they remounted the tire this last time, there is now 1 tiny weight on the inside (the flat stick on type mounted to the centerline of the rim). Am I to understand this is not uncommon for a tire to not mount properly on the bead/rim interface? When it happens it will change the way the tire rolls down the road big time? An otherwise perfectly serviceable tire not properly mounted can cause the side to side pull, be thumpy and vibrate just because of a problem with the bead seating? It does makes sense, but I thought that the sidewall flex would mitigate the issue. Thanks Ron

[GreyGoose006]

hoping that since his problem is solved, you can help me with mine...
my caprice, (84, 4dr) seems to drive straight at lower speeds but on the highway, i feel like a drunk trying to drive it...
it wont stay in the middle of the lane and seems especially prone to wandering when the rear of the car is loaded down with luggage.

example.
the other weekend, i had a total of 7 people in my car, including me, and the trunk was full of their stuff, and the car simply would not stay straight.

is this normal, or what?
anyway, i am having many of the same problems as red88.

[silicon212]

GG, in your case, check the performance of your shocks. A new set can do wonders.

[GreyGoose006]

the shocks are pretty recently new.
i got them ~2 years ago
they are the super heavy duty 9c1 spec shocks

[silicon212]

Yes, but that doesn't mean they're in great shape. I bought a set of monroe Sensa-Trac shocks for my 9C1 back in late '06 - by mid '07 one of them had to be replaced due to tracking issues - it had leaked out.

[bobss396]

Originally Posted by red88jeep

Hello, Just to further my education on tire behavior issues. I guess we are now moving in the more advanced area of tire/chassis setup knowledge. Just to clarify, the tire did not have a lot of weight installed. I think the total weight was less than 2 oz. The wheels are in excellent condition and the bead area is not damaged or corroded. After they remounted the tire this last time, there is now 1 tiny weight on the inside (the flat stick on type mounted to the centerline of the rim). Am I to understand this is not uncommon for a tire to not mount properly on the bead/rim interface? When it happens it will change the way the tire rolls down the road big time? An otherwise perfectly serviceable tire not properly mounted can cause the side to side pull, be thumpy and vibrate just because of a problem with the bead seating? It does makes sense, but I thought that the sidewall flex would mitigate the issue. Thanks Ron

I've seen tires that had a un-seated bead that caused weird ride problems, just like yours. Balancing the tire only showed that a 2 ounce weight got it to balance, which is not a tremendous amount of weight.

The fact is that the course of action the tire shop took was the right one. They broke it down, rotated it on the rim perhaps and made sure the bead was fully seated. Some radials take more oomph to seat the beads than others, lubrication is crucial too.

Bob

[red88jeep]

GreyGoose, My suggestion: Start with the simple things. If you already have not done so is to start over with a ground (tire up) inspection of everything. Front AND rear. Toss out any previous thinking of what might be wrong. It can cloud the process. As you verify the function and condition of each component, then move to the next one. Take time to inspect your tires and wheels for matching size, type, condition and fit. Use an accurate Tire Gauge to check the air pressure in the tires and make sure they are to spec. (7 people and gear can add between 1000 and 2000 pounds of payload. Most cars and their tires only are rated for about 900 to 1100 lbs of people and gear. See car capacity plate on door jam.) If your tires are not rated for the car weight and payload, they can get mushy on performance (See side wall of tire for weight capacity at what pressure.) Just because a tire looks OK, does not mean its properly inflated. Often you do not see any visible change in the tire shape until the pressure drops to around 15 to 22 lbs. From that point, closely look at every thing from tires to lug nuts, Wheel Barings to springs, frame to bushings, steering components and so on. If you are using aftermarket wheels and or tires, make sure the offset is within proper factory parameters. If you go to far out of range, it can cause the geometry to get way out of whack and the suspension cannot function properly. the result is poor steering and possibly tire and component wear. If everything checks out then you might try moving tires around to see if it changes anything. If you have a tire doing goofy things, then you might discover it by moving it to a different position. After all that, then an alignment check is probably in order with attention to toe.
My last piece of advice is not to just throw money at replacing things. If it seems not quite right, make sure it is verified against spec. A common problem is to replace perfectly good parts because they were not properly inspected using the right process. Shocks, ball joints and steering linkage components are common items replaced without proper verification to specification for replacement condition. Just because its old and dirty does not mean its broken. Ron